The Avros are gone!

[screwed_again]

Just heard from a reliable source inside the G.O., the Avros are gone this summer! That just came down from NWA on Monday. That's why the "Realignment Notice" was canceled today because they need to alter the language in the 1113c to ease the pain from all the training for the remaning Saabs. The new Vacancy/realignment notice comes out after the ruling on the 1113c. Good luck XJ!

 

[SEVEN]

I hate this industry. It looks like another 200 more XJ pilots furloughed before it is all said and done. Hopefully there will be another aircraft to replace it.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Just remember everyone... We're livin' the dream...

 

[gnx99]

Interesting little nugget there.

 

[Dodge]

Once ASE is over....its over.

The mental horsepower in MSP is alarming. Just think of the millions wasted by training all the used to be captains to be FO's in the machine. Foley should be po'd. That money could have been given to MAIR and then loaned back to Mesaba at a usury rate to fund their BK.

 

[Peanut Chaser]

not One Penny!

 

[Ace McCoy]

Huh?

I'm confused. If the Avros are going sooner than expected why would the company cancel the downgrade of 14 avro captains? Wouldn't they want to get the ball rolling on training those guys back to the saab?

 

[screwed_again]

I'm confused. If the Avros are going sooner than expected why would the company cancel the downgrade of 14 avro captains? Wouldn't they want to get the ball rolling on training those guys back to the saab?

If they complete the 1113c process with some modifications, they will downgrade these guys under more 'favorable' terms for the company...lets say if a guy completes training (no matter what the circumstances for going to that training event) they will be seat lock for 2 years. That way if new airplanes come, the avro guys will be stuck on the Saab while other guys junior fly the new planes.

 

[bri5150]

If they complete the 1113c process with some modifications, they will downgrade these guys under more 'favorable' terms for the company...lets say if a guy completes training (no matter what the circumstances for going to that training event) they will be seat lock for 2 years. That way if new airplanes come, the avro guys will be stuck on the Saab while other guys junior fly the new planes.

Why wouldn't they have done that from the beginning. Just because the Avros are going quicker, they feel the need to screw us more? That doesn't make much sense. They would try to take every penny from the beginning!

 

[Mesabi Miner]

"Not a finga!"

- the pissed off Dad from "A Christmas Story".

 

[screwed_again]

Why wouldn't they have done that from the beginning. Just because the Avros are going quicker, they feel the need to screw us more? That doesn't make much sense. They would try to take every penny from the beginning!

I don't have all the answers. But, just maybe, XJ doesn't always know whats happening over at NWA. Maybe somethings just changed recently, I don't know. Maybe they want more...

 

[Mel Sharples]

Just heard from a reliable source inside the G.O., the Avros are gone this summer! That just came down from NWA on Monday. That's why the "Realignment Notice" was canceled today because they need to alter the language in the 1113c to ease the pain from all the training for the remaning Saabs. The new Vacancy/realignment notice comes out after the ruling on the 1113c. Good luck XJ!

I call bullsh*t.

If they were going away quicker, they wouldn't hang on to high priced Avro pilots. This sounds more like the Avros staying.

 

[Rossa]

Bohica!!!!

Screwed is on to something - why play nice with a realignment when you can seat lock the most expensive guys for 2 years, make their life miserable doing APN-CIU high-speeds, change the work rules and watch them quit/pick them off one by one!!
By the way, we'll have to come up with something better than "not one cent" - it serves well as a battle cry, but the Judge won't hear it!

Talk to the reps and get a feel for what they're up against! This one has union busting written all over it!

Bottom line: NWA MEC won't bat an eye when they bend us over and go at it!!!

 

[WMUSIGPI]

By the way, we'll have to come up with something better than "not one cent" - it serves well as a battle cry, but the Judge won't hear it!

Talk to the reps and get a feel for what they're up against! This one has union busting written all over it!

Bottom line: NWA MEC won't bat an eye when they bend us over and go at it!!!

Then how about all together now WE ALL QUIT!!!

 

[captpetefam]

Then how about all together now WE ALL QUIT!!!

Or in fine XJ pilot fasion... Seeeeya!!! No, no... we really mean it this time, Seeeya. No, wait, I think we're serious, I'm actually thinking about quitting. Well, at least I'm thinking about quitting. I really might be upset this time.

Or as the last CA I flew with put it, "I think we should take this and live to fight another day." Uh, yeah, like the last time? Oh, wait, maybe the time before that... Oh! Nope. Maybe... hm... oh well.

MOST XJers are great! You will be missed. As for the CA that think this is a good idea to take this, enjoy Foley and Spandex's company.

Cya,

CP

 

[DetoXJ]

Good Luck where ever you end up C. Sorry to hear you are throwing in the towel and quitting. May you find greener pastures elsewhere.

 

[whaleroast]

"Smoke and mirrors," is what I heard repeated all fall from senior guys. They all sounded like Rainman.

Well guys, anyone still think this is all "smoke and mirrors"?

 

[Chris9702l]

Avro aren't going

I call bullshit too. Funny how it is always announced that the Avro's are going away when we are at the end of negotiations. Heard this three times now. The sky is falling again. They aren't gonna go until the 70 seaters come (who gets them is still up in the air).

 

[Dodge]

I call bullshoot too. Funny how it is always announced that the Avro's are going away when we are at the end of negotiations. Heard this three times now. The sky is falling again. They aren't gonna go until the 70 seaters come (who gets them is still up in the air).

I still have no earthly idea on why we are negotiating anything at all.

 

[airmasn]

I still have no earthly idea on why we are negotiating anything at all.

because the judge handed mesaba unions their ass in court...what do you suggest they do?

 

[DetoXJ]

because the judge handed mesaba unions their ass in court...what do you suggest they do?

Don't bother. They are the ones still walking around with "gave in 98 due in 04 stickers" on their bags.

 

[Dodge]

because the judge handed mesaba unions their ass in court...what do you suggest they do?

Well, they are going to loose a lot of pilots. People can't afford to work for what Mesaba is willing to pay. The senior guys in MSP will have to sell their boats and the junior FO's will be in the welfare line.

I am glad we are helping fuel the race. Now everyone can blame us Mesaba pilots instead of Mesa for making the situation worse for the whole lot.

When the concession vote passes, everyone will claim to have not voted in favor of concessions. Just like our contract. I only flew with two Avro CA's that had enough sack to say they voted for it. Good for them; they did what they felt was right. The other weak dicks that voted yes never own up. The same will happen here. Everyone will be mad in the crewrooms, nobody voted for concessions, but yet it passed by 75%. Or maybe the union just "reports" the results as they see them.

 

[4BlueBars]

Today in the crewroom I heard an FO say "I'd rather make 80% of my current salary than be at the bottom seniority list of another regional". It scares me to imagine how many are saying this or even thinking it.
I love to fly. Just not enough to deal with this shoot. Where do you draw the line? Wouldn't you be better off taking the extra money you'd make with another career and either rent or buy an ultralight/airplane to fly on the weekends?

 

[screwed_again]

I still have no earthly idea on why we are negotiating anything at all.

It's the law moron.

 

[XJTool]

What do you think?

I was just wondering here, I know I keep hearing everyone say "not one cent"... But if it really came down to giving a little or losing your job (due to an XJ shutdown) what does everyone think??? Is there a middle-ground here between what we want and what the company wants?? It REALLY sucks to give in AT ALL... but if it's between the imposed contract and what we want... what would be realistic for ALPA to propose in a situation such as this?? IF, and that's a big IF.... but IF we have to give a little... what is reasonable??? We sure don't want what the company proposes. Just looking for various opinions here. Thanks

 

[Rossa]

XJTool,
You're obviously one of the seniors - what do most of your compadres say? I'm guessing "let's see what the union can get out of this"........Then what??

I think (personally) that we don't have a choice this time! We will take what we are given or leave!!
What will you do???

By the way, how would you answer if asked..."How did you vote last time?"

 

[screwed_again]

I hope all the chest pounders leave after the concessions are taken. Go pound your chest at the bottom of 9E's list.

 

[Dodge]

.....

 

[Dodge]

.....

 

[Rossa]

Well, I guess you'll be earning more as an English Teacher.