The Avros are gone!

[screwed_again]

.....

 

[screwed_again]

......

 

[Rossa]

I wonder how many of us on this board will swallow our pride and work for XJ after the dust settles on this one??? Will the AVRO boys/girls quit when Spandex et al, lock them into the SAAB and gut their wages/benefits?
I think it's a sign of the times....................The Regionals are not a career anymore, just in case any of us felt that we could make a commitment to XJ!!

 

[screwed_again]

Right on Rossa!

 

[gnx99]

Might be a repost, but here's an article on Mesaba's situation.

http://www.startribune.com/535/story/250165.html

 

[saabingitagain]

So, I was looking at my W2 today.. made over 70k.. flew less than 200 hours last year at XJ.. could I afford to take a pay cut. Sure. My buddy who is an FO flew his A$$ off and only made 30k. Can he afford to take a pay cut. NO! I will not vote for a contract that lowers the bar for the FOs. They can't afford it. If they want to stick 85 seats in the Avro and pay us what we are making now.. go for it. They need a little off the top with a snap back after all of this crap blows over, fine. Bring it down from the top. Not the bottom. You can't squeeze blood from a turnip.. or something like that.

 

[DetoXJ]

I fly with plenty of FO's who make $40K - $50K. We all have a bit to give and it wont just come from the top.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Detox - Not to stir the pot here, but those FO's are few and far between. I flew almost 900 hours this year and my W2 was $26,060.15. But hey, if you think I've got alittle room to give... Ya know what... I don't have ANY room...

Not only that... There are plenty of captains here, who have been here for 7+ years that are just barely clearing 60K... Nah, I don't think we need to give anything...

 

[DetoXJ]

Detox - Not to stir the pot here, but those FO's are few and far between. I flew almost 900 hours this year and my W2 was $26,060.15. But hey, if you think I've got alittle room to give... Ya know what... I don't have ANY room...

Not only that... There are plenty of captains here, who have been here for 7+ years that are just barely clearing 60K... Nah, I don't think we need to give anything...

A 4 year FO averaging 90 credit per month makes $40K. Throw in some extra OT and a premium pay trip here and there and you are easily up to $50K. 4 Year FO's aren't "few and far between".

 

[schmitty340]

I worked my ass off as a 7+ year capt...w2= $57,000 and some change....

NO ROOM....PERIOD.

When detoxj gets bumped back to the saab and earns less on it then he did a few years ago he will learn. enjoy it well it last.

Schmiity

 

[schmitty340]

detoxj.......keep picking up that open time buddy. sooner or later you will wake up.

 

[Smarta$$]

A 4 year FO averaging 90 credit per month makes $40K. Throw in some extra OT and a premium pay trip here and there and you are easily up to $50K. 4 Year FO's aren't "few and far between".

What about the 3 year FO's? 2 year FO's? 1year FO's? They don't deserve to make a decent living? Obviously not in your eyes.

Just as long as you can make your 70,000 grand right!

 

[i fly boxes]

detoxj you do need to wake up, look at what you said, it takes FOUR YEARS to make 40K, how in the heck are you supposed to support your family on that when in order to make that amount, you have to sell your life to the airline. And that is your fourth year pay as an FO, how about the other three years? I agree with the mesaba pilots who say Not one penny.

 

[screwed_again]

I thnk its BS when the DTW FO last night suggested that only the Captains take a pay cut. The last contract awarded HUGE gains for the FOs; I saw minor gains. Whatever....Now these guys have the balls to suggest the captains give it up so the FOs keep their gains. No Way! We all take the hit EVENLY across the board. I don't give a shite how much money they make. Everyone feels the pain. Quit crying.

 

[DoinTime]

A 4 year FO averaging 90 credit per month makes $40K. Throw in some extra OT and a premium pay trip here and there and you are easily up to $50K. 4 Year FO's aren't "few and far between".

A 4 year FO at XJ would have to credit around 1470 hours annually to make $50,000 in a year. Thats crediting 122.5 hours per month. Just my opinion but 122.5 hours per month is more than just a little OT and a premium trip here and there. Judging from my friends at Mesaba a four year FO that works his line will make about $36,000-$37,000 per year.

 

[schmitty340]

DoingTime......you are correct......

for 4+ years as an FO, I never earned more the 40k on a w-2. and I averaged 85+ hours a month...with some months at 100hrs or more. Detoxj is out of touch. when we all walk, he will be looking around wondering were everyone went....it is sad!

 

[screwed_again]

What about the 3 year FO's? 2 year FO's? 1year FO's? They don't deserve to make a decent living? Obviously not in your eyes.

Just as long as you can make your 70,000 grand right!

We all started flying for that kind of money. Do you expect the $70000 captain to feel sorry for the junior FOs? You have to start somewhere. There are no guarantees in life. If you came to XJ expecting a quick upgrade and $70,000, you're wrong. I expected to be making $125,000 by this time in my career. Should I demand FOs give up so I can get my pay raise?

 

[DetoXJ]

Crunch the #'s any way you want. We all know that there are plenty of FO's in the XJ ranks who are pulling down $40K - $50K. I have never said that 1st, 2nd & 3rd year FO's don't deserve more. We all deserve to be making 100K+ per year and we all deserve weekends and holidays off and we all deserve 18 days off per month. So what! It's not about what we deserve. Marines in Iraq deserve more and so do school teachers, so what. We will all share the pain and for some FO to suggest that only Captains take the hit is ridiculous. ALPA is actively negoiating concessions, deal with it.

 

[fly4ever]

DetoXJ,

I am one of the recently upgraded, recently downgraded captains(5.5 years at the company) and my 2005 W2 broke 40,000 for the first time. I have averaged 875 flying hours per year since I've been here. You don't know what you are talking about. If you insist on posting your crap and trying to drive the wedge between us, the only people you are helping is the company. Maybe you should win a Gordy Newstrom Award for helping the company achieve its goals.

screw again,

You and DetoXJ should be paired together for the rest of your XJ career - you can celebrate that you both make enough money to actually buy food and keep a roof over your head. I hope you enjoy screwing your fellow employees with the attitude.

 

[screwed_again]

DetoXJ,

I am one of the recently upgraded, recently downgraded captains(5.5 years at the company) and my 2005 W2 broke 40,000 for the first time. I have averaged 875 flying hours per year since I've been here. You don't know what you are talking about. If you insist on posting your crap and trying to drive the wedge between us, the only people you are helping is the company. Maybe you should win a Gordy Newstrom Award for helping the company achieve its goals.

screw again,

You and DetoXJ should be paired together for the rest of your XJ career - you can celebrate that you both make enough money to actually buy food and keep a roof over your head. I hope you enjoy screwing your fellow employees with the attitude.

How the hell am I screwing my fellow employees? Just because I made more money than you last year doesn't mean I should take the cuts so you can continue your lifestyle while I take my hit and your hit as well? I know its not easy to swallow, but it is not fair to suggest the captains take the only cuts. Keep up your attitude and you will take a pay cut when you finally upgrade to captain for the second time. Careful about what you wish for. You will someday work under the wages you fight for now. Then when you upgrade, you will complain about the tiny payraise for being captain. I can hear it now,"I have all the responsiblilty of this ship and they gave me a $4 raise. We have to fix the captain payscales on the next contract!"

 

[Mesabi Miner]

I thnk its BS when the DTW FO last night suggested that only the Captains take a pay cut. The last contract awarded HUGE gains for the FOs; I saw minor gains. Whatever....Now these guys have the balls to suggest the captains give it up so the FOs keep their gains. No Way! We all take the hit EVENLY across the board. I don't give a shoote how much money they make. Everyone feels the pain. Quit crying.

You'll make a good manager someday.

MM

 

[screwed_again]

You'll make a good manager someday.

MM

You make a great FO.

 

[gnx99]

Right now I'm over 1.5 years seniority. W2= $23,850. Straight reserve, 75 hour guarantee every month.

Did you see the new Air Wisconsin contract? 2nd Year FO: $34.86. Mesaba wants to give me less than $24.50!!

 

[Towelie]

Crunch the #'s any way you want. We all know that there are plenty of FO's in the XJ ranks who are pulling down $40K - $50K. I have never said that 1st, 2nd & 3rd year FO's don't deserve more. We all deserve to be making 100K+ per year and we all deserve weekends and holidays off and we all deserve 18 days off per month. So what! It's not about what we deserve. Marines in Iraq deserve more and so do school teachers, so what. We will all share the pain and for some FO to suggest that only Captains take the hit is ridiculous. ALPA is actively negoiating concessions, deal with it.

Oh, ... the times change but never your "as long as I get mine" attitude.

P.S. "YOU'RE WRONG!!!"

 

[schmitty340]

detoxj....of you want to add per diem to inflate your ego fine( then maybe an fo made more then 40k). that fact is...there is no career at mesaba. anything that was once good about this place has been drained by our slt. even if we get out of this situation with a few percent paycut and some planes they will be pounding down the door for more next year.

NWA will not allow any of it's regional pilots to make more then 70k for long. They will shrink and replace...over and over again. this is the reality. they will find people to work for nothing...It just won't be me!

It stops here. not one cent.

If that means no more XJ...I am OK with that.

 

[DetoXJ]

Oh,... the times change but never your "as long as I get mine" attitude.

P.S. "YOU'RE WRONG !!!"

DTW ? Not me. Not even DTW based. DetoXJ refers to Detox, not Detroit. Guess again.

 

[flyn96]

Deto_XJ,

Hes the one that said during the union pizza dinner, "What do we have to do to get these CRJ's(705's special Ed was talking about) at Mesaba"

and screwed_again well he's probably one of Deto_XJs buddies on the Avro.


Until the last few years Upgrade NEVER took more than 2 1/2 years. Yea MSP dudes had to hang out but they could of upgraded in DTW. Deto_XJ and Screwed againg have NO clude what its like to be stuck as an FO for 5,6,7 years. Thus they have the "Hey thats just the breaks kid" attitude.

Lets see how they like being demoted to props again or swinging gear for some tool just like themselves.

 

[DetoXJ]

Deto_XJ,

Hes the one that said during the union pizza dinner, "What do we have to do to get these CRJ's(705's special Ed was talking about) at Mesaba"

and screwed_again well he's probably one of Deto_XJs buddies on the Avro.


Until the last few years Upgrade NEVER took more than 2 1/2 years. Yea MSP dudes had to hang out but they could of upgraded in DTW. Deto_XJ and Screwed againg have NO clude what its like to be stuck as an FO for 5,6,7 years. Thus they have the "Hey thats just the breaks kid" attitude.

Lets see how they like being demoted to props again or swinging gear for some tool just like themselves.

Wrong again. I've never meet Captain Ed.

 

[XJTool]

I wonder how many of us on this board will swallow our pride and work for XJ after the dust settles on this one??? Will the AVRO boys/girls quit when Spandex et al, lock them into the SAAB and gut their wages/benefits?
I think it's a sign of the times....................The Regionals are not a career anymore, just in case any of us felt that we could make a commitment to XJ!!

Rossa has a good point here, and she seems to be on of the more intelligent XJ posters.

 

[XJPilot547]

Simply unbelieveable. This is exactly what management wants to see. Pilots fighting pilots. I don't think anyone should take a paycut but you two, Detoxj and Screwed Again need to wake up. First, FO's did not get a huge increase. The only area that FO's made out was first year pay and none of us are first year. Yeah, FO's got a bigger percentage increase, but 10% of $30 is only a $3 increase. So yeah, we struck gold, right. I am a 6 year FO and my W-2 with per diem was $39K. I think the union should only negotiate a Saab rate. That's all the company says we are going to have so let's negotiate just for that. I will not give concessions for growth when we already did so on our growth contract. I have my resumes out everywhere and hope everyone else does the same. I will not shed any tears if we shut down, enough is enough.