The American crawl is back....

[waveflyer]

Not crickets- it's called having a business, a life, and a dog and a hundred friends who are a higher priority than getting involved in fubi-drama.
I think both of you ought to stop the personal attacks and outings-
But my main point stands- one's seniority does not determine the validity of an argument-

In the words of a man much wiser than all of us:

"Refute the argument, not me. What difference does it make to you what I believe?"
-Plato

 

[Fubijaakr]

Don't worry, wavey. I'm done with it...and him. Its easy enough to avoid the weak sisters...

 

[Mookie]

Don't worry, wavey. I'm done with it...and him. Its easy enough to avoid the weak sisters...

Have a great holiday season, Fubi. Peace on earth, and good will towards men...and all that

Mookie

 

[Mookie]

Not crickets- it's called having a business, a life, and a dog and a hundred friends who are a higher priority than getting involved in fubi-drama.
I think both of you ought to stop the personal attacks and outings-
But my main point stands- one's seniority does not determine the validity of an argument-

In the words of a man much wiser than all of us:

"Refute the argument, not me. What difference does it make to you what I believe?"
-Plato

Excellent post. Now that is someone speaking from "Wisdom"...

-Mookie

 

[Quimby]

Actually, last night as we were turning final, the SWA guy on the taxiway said, "Tower we can take it on the roll." They got it and got off.

Now, I'm not saying there was any loss of separation or anything unsafe happened. However, it is an example of the SWA "rush" culture.

So you're saying that nothing unsafe happened.

Got it.

Great story.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Nope. Its just an example how SWA guys can't wait 3 minutes for an airplane on 3 mile final to land and clear the runway. They'd rather turn two corners at 35 knots and punch the TOGA button.

I guess every leg they do something like that is two minutes toward another time and a half trip.

That's your culture. Admit it. Celebrate it. Own it.

 

[waveflyer]

I own that fubi-
Most of us do. 3000+ flights a day- minutes build on each other- I'm trying to be as efficient as I can - and the culture does not look down on pilots who need a minute if they're behind the curve- or just don't feel like taking an intersection that day in that circumstance
I hate that we're losing that as pilots get afraid of their own shadows and have lawyers fly the airplane- "what if? What if? What if?" be a pilot! It's inconsistent to have pilots who have no problem taking off at orange county or MDW on a hot day with the right performance numbers, but won't take an intersection that could save 5-10 minutes because of "safety".
But even with that mentality creeping in, don't kid yourself about the advantage it gives us- controllers know we do certain things and help them move metal- and they reward us- (it's not pizza parties, it's that we're gamers and aren't afraid of safely using our abilities to keep the operation going)
Iow: if it's safe and we can do it that day- we will. And if it means a slot is created and 1 less plane to deal with and on it's way- it's appreciated and makes an airport run better-
Our safety record is too good to be critiqued as heavily as you guys like- I've heard stories of some pretty roughshod captains who were unsafe- now- I think we have a good balance

Btw- slower isn't always safer- I think and fly better in a somewhat fast paced rhythm- often disrupting that rhythm makes it worse- and as for taxiing, some of the roughest taxiers I've seen are slow taxiers- and often the quicker ones are smoother-
The airplane takes off and lands at 130kts- smooth and aware of the situation is a more important safety factor than speed- some guys are so slow paced, they get lulled to sleep and stop paying attention as well

time, place, competency, and judgement- there's just no escaping it

As for money, at some point it is really dumb to demand the money we think we're worth if we refuse to use our skill to make and save $$-
Over-using the safety card digs into our credibility-

 

[Fubijaakr]

I never said you were unsafe. Just that rushing was a large part of the SWA culture. That's all.

When people comment that you get preferential treatment from ATC because you throw pizza parties, I actually defend you.

An ATC controller once told me exactly why you get preferential treatment...the most perishable commodity on earth is an air traffic slot. They're in the business of building them. And if they know a pilot will do whatever it takes to fill the slot he's built, he gives it to him. And SWA pilots will generally do ANYTHING ATC asks.

That's the only reason you guys get preferential treatment. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Taxi speed? I don't really care how fast you taxi. Just don't run into me, that's all I ask.

My only point in the whole conversations is that the "Rush, Rush" culture you embrace sometimes bites you...BUR and MDW are a couple examples. BOTH accidents attributed to pilot error due to trying to cut corners.

There is a silver lining. Due to your off airport excursion in MDW, we ALL got FAA directives to ensure landing distance is adequately calculated. So, in the end, your "culture" acted to make it safer for all of us.

You can take pride in that.

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

I never said you were unsafe. Just that rushing was a large part of the SWA culture. That's all.

When people comment that you get preferential treatment from ATC because you throw pizza parties, I actually defend you.

An ATC controller once told me exactly why you get preferential treatment...the most perishable commodity on earth is an air traffic slot. They're in the business of building them. And if they know a pilot will do whatever it takes to fill the slot he's built, he gives it to him. And SWA pilots will generally do ANYTHING ATC asks.

That's the only reason you guys get preferential treatment. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Taxi speed? I don't really care how fast you taxi. Just don't run into me, that's all I ask.

My only point in the whole conversations is that the "Rush, Rush" culture you embrace sometimes bites you...BUR and MDW are a couple examples. BOTH accidents attributed to pilot error due to trying to cut corners.

There is a silver lining. Due to your off airport excursion in MDW, we ALL got FAA directives to ensure landing distance is adequately calculated. So, in the end, your "culture" acted to make it safer for all of us.

You can take pride in that.

For someone who has never flown for SWA and has no idea how we truly operate you sure have all the answers.

You worry about your own operation old man. We don't need your advice.

 

[Fubijaakr]

How you operate is obvious to ANYONE who shares the airspace with you.

And your arrogance is obvious because you don't need advice from anyone, obviously.

 

[waveflyer]

I think MDW is not as you say- but let others defend that-
I've heard many who didn't appreciate the rushed culture of the past say BUR was in some ways a good thing to happen to us - no one got hurt and it highlighted that we needed to slow down some-

Now, you lose credibility when you use the word "rushed" to define us today-
"Ready" is a better word- "trying" is also good- many airline's pilots just don't -
"anything ATC asks" is a stretch- but we will operate as well as we can safely-
It ultimately comes down to aligning incentives- you get paid by the minute- we get paid by the trip- makes all the difference

 

[Fubijaakr]

Exactly. And paid by the trip is what breeds the culture. Not just for the flight crews, but in the terminal too.

Its genius. Make it a race for the passengers to board so they don't get a crappy seat.

Move the metal. The faster the better. That's SWA in a nutshell.

Quit trying to justify it...just embrace it.

 

[waveflyer]

Stop critiquing something justifiable then

(and stop denying you're a hater
You know there's a lot more to SWA than 'faster the better'- how about acknowledging "do the right thing"- I think that's what you're most jealous of!)

 

[LeeRoyJenkins]

Exactly. And paid by the trip is what breeds the culture. Not just for the flight crews, but in the terminal too.

Its genius. Make it a race for the passengers to board so they don't get a crappy seat.

Move the metal. The faster the better. That's SWA in a nutshell.

Quit trying to justify it...just embrace it.

Again you have no idea how our operation works (including our TFP system). You honestly know NOTHING of our contract and our operation yet you wont STFU about what we do and how we do it.

Within the last two hours I have received 2 separate PM's from complete strangers that have flown with you. They both told me what a complete a$$hole you are and a bad pilot to boot. I guess that explains all your aggression on FI and to SWA pilots in particular.

Seriously old man you really need to get a life. A quit talking about things that you know nothing about. It really is unbecoming.

 

[tankerhead]

3 points:

1. I didn't expect a thread about SW and Fubi-jack-meoff when I started reading. Strange.

2. Pretty sure the Midway overrun was just bad luck on a bad night.

3. You don't need someone to PM you to realize Dubi-ous is an a55hole. He self proclaims it with every idiot post. His one positive contribution to this place was coming up with the "God King" moniker, and that was only funny once.

Now someone talk some more smack about the crAAwl.