The only one doing chest-thumping around here is you, lear
Incorrect. Witness 2 pages back where Mr. Happiness was still thumping his chest that 'MSA will STILL have a contract that -9E WISHES they had'.
Other than that, yeah, it's pretty quiet, considering all the chest thumping YOU and many others were doing not so long ago...
lear- you and I can proclaim all we want to about how we need to put it all on the line- our jobs, careers, our liberty, and our homes(jail and lawsuits/fines for illegal strikes). But speak for YOURSELF, and fall on your own sword if you want to.
Thank you for proving my point.
NO ONE wants to be the ones to put their kneck on the line. Management knows that the majority of today's airline pilots are spineless, and they take advantage of it.
If airlines were trying this crap 20 or 30 years ago, they'd have had to back off and give decent contracts or the airline would be burried.
There's a different breed of airline pilot out there today, and they're a piss-poor shadow of their former selves. No wonder we don't engender respect anymore.
It would be the height of irresponsibility for a leadership group to not provide an alternative to a term sheet, which WOULD set rates at new lows (sub-mesa) or an illegal job action which would place people in jail and cost individuals their homes.
Depends. It would only be irresponsible if there were a large demographic ASKING for that alternative. If the vast majority of your pilots were sending in strike ballots and telling their reps 'Not one Red cent', then the NC should have stuck to that.
I don't know what you guys were telling them or what their Wilson Polling numbers were showing, but they were obviously different than the demographic represented here, a la' new Agreement.
Do you have a family? A mortgage?
Yup. Both. 2 kids and a $200k house. I also have other skills to fall back on if my company DID tank after a work stoppage or choose to liquidate. It's called 'being prepared'.
If alpa national wants to band together (read-the well-to-do's, also) and call for a Shutdown of Service, I'll be there, but your expectation that WE protect YOUR industry FOR YOU is HYPOCRITICAL.
No, it's not. It's called SOLIDARITY. We live in a symbiotic professional field, whether people like it or not. When guys bailed Mesa for Freedom and Ornstein's b.s. succeeded when the Mesa pilots folded, management used those new rates against you. Now that you have folded, PCL management will use both Mesa AND your rates agains them.
Witness also all the Mesa bashing over the last several years, most people b*tching about how it was 'dragging the industry down' and they 'should have stood firm'. Everyone seems to understand that their resolve affects not only their OWN airline, but everyone else's over time,,, that is, of course, until it's YOUR 'Yes' vote that dropped the bar, then it's everyone else being 'hypocritical'.
So yes, it is the responsibility of EVERY SINGLE AIRLINE PILOT to hold the bar. Problem is: more and more pilots are saying, "I'm just taking care of me and my family," and screw the rest of the airline world. Then they're surprised when negotiations come back around half a decade later and they're told they won't get much because everyone else's rates are lower. How did they get lower? Oh yeah, because you lowered your rates last time and so the next airline, then the next airline...
No one wants to see the ugly truth that they, too, participated in lowering the bar.
And you can Ki** my working-stiff pilot A** if you want to tell me I did not fight this
I never said YOU didn't fight this. Go back to my first post and read objectively, you'll see where I said it was WRONG for people to try to 'punish' MSA pilots over this and congratulated the few who voted NO.
I didn't make this personal, Mr. Profit did. I'm just clearing up the inaccuracies that exist in what evidently seems to be a common belief about your new pay rates in comparison with PCL.
Classic! Dude has 13+ pending grievances pending at PCL while at the same time he displays his ignorance by trying to convice us that the PCL contract is better than the XJ contract.
What's with the bold type? No need to shout.
How does the number of grievances equate to whether a contract is mathematically superior in terms of overall income versus another?
The only thing you've done is show YOUR ignorance. You could have UAL's pre-bankruptcy contract and still have multiple grievances if management chooses to violate it. Would then, by your reasoning, MSA's contract be better than say United's, just because someone has multiple grievances filed?
Your logic makes NO sense, I suggest you go back and try again.
Lear further claimed that he compared paychecks and schedule summaries with Mesaba pilots over a few brews.....<coughing>...BuII$hist!!!
Oh, I see. You were there and saw it all...
So you're one of those... What a tool.
Only a true FI tool would "Claim" that he compared pay stubs and schedule summaries while sitting at the bar drinking beers with pilots of other airlines. I can just picture the sceen at the bar that evening.......
Mesaba pilots drinking beer on a layover and talking with some ladies and up walks Lear with w-2 and logbooks in hand. Lear says...."hey you guys work for XJ....lets compare" Mesaba pilots look at each other and roll their eyes while cute gals laugh. Mesaba pilots leave with girls and Lear goes up to his room alone and whacks off.
Another Flightinfo genius who knows it all, and how everything happened with someone else.
It wasn't a layover, it was 2 friends of mine who work there and it was pre-arranged in domicile (DTW). Go back a couple years to right after you guys signed your contract and read the big thread that came up about how you guys had caved after all your talk and signed for rates that were within $1 an hour year-for-year of PCL rates.
Maybe then you'll understand how it came about. Until then, since you weren't there, why don't you shut your pie hole? mmmkaaayyy?
