T38 Student doesnt turn heat off vid

[talondriver]

. I just don't see the benefit in yelling and screaming like that. You may as well turn around and cank they hop because for all practical purposes learning has stopped at that point. Trying to salvage anything beneficial is more or less a waste of gas IMHO.

These are all valid points. One thing that's overlooked when it comes to the yelling on the tape...The T-38 can get pretty loud when the A/C is in full hot. I'm sure he was yelling over the noise. You really can't make out the A/C noise on the tape. You can hear the yelling taper off as life is sucked out of his body. No comment on the cussing though.

 

[Huggyu2]

Good point. As an A-model pilot, that's kind of interesting how the tape makes it sound so quiet, yet we all know that the A/C is cranking out beaucoup heat AND noise.
So, just so I understand: even though the heater is "blowing hot and dry", you won't hear it on the tape, right?

 

[CatfishVT9]

For those of you railing on this guy...let's put you in a cockpit that is 150 degrees (not bsing) with runaway heat and you have NO ability in the rear cockpit to turn it down with a student that doesn't speak English real well. This is a good dude who got in a bad situation, with the temperature going from 150 towards 200, the next action is punching off the canopy, then ejecting, so it's understandable that he got a little upset, in other words, if you haven't flown the T-38, lighten up on the dude...by the way Otto, how did you get a hold of this tape? I'm sure my coworker wouldn't appreciate you putting it out on flightinfo.com.

Tmac,

You said exactly what I was thinking. This guy did the best he could.

I had the same thing in a T-2C a few years back. As soon as we went wheels in the well, the A/C ran full hot. I told the student (an American) to run it down cooler and gave him a few seconds to make it happen. When the temp didn't come down, I took the aircraft (just like this guy did) and told him to try Auto or Manual, either one to get it cool. When that didn't work, I had him turn off the A/C and tuned downwind to land ASAP. I didn't have to yell at him since I could tell he understood and was working on it. We had only gotten to about 4000 ft as I recall (about 1-1/2 minutes or so), and it was already blistering hot. On the landing rollout, I put the canopy up at about 60 kts and that 90 degree mississippi air felt like it was ice cold.

Any of you who fault this guy don't understand how unbearably hot it can get under that greenhouse we call a canopy in just a few seconds.

Catfish

 

[Falconjet]

Tmac,

You said exactly what I was thinking. This guy did the best he could.

I had the same thing in a T-2C a few years back. As soon as we went wheels in the well, the A/C ran full hot. I told the student (an American) to run it down cooler and gave him a few seconds to make it happen. When the temp didn't come down, I took the aircraft (just like this guy did) and told him to try Auto or Manual, either one to get it cool. When that didn't work, I had him turn off the A/C and tuned downwind to land ASAP. I didn't have to yell at him since I could tell he understood and was working on it. We had only gotten to about 4000 ft as I recall (about 1-1/2 minutes or so), and it was already blistering hot. On the landing rollout, I put the canopy up at about 60 kts and that 90 degree mississippi air felt like it was ice cold.

Any of you who fault this guy don't understand how unbearably hot it can get under that greenhouse we call a canopy in just a few seconds.

Catfish

Catfish: That seems to me to have been the best course of action. I personally can't stand any kind of heat on in the cockpit under anything less than artic cold soak conditions. I am always freezing the other pilots out if I control the temp (which I usually do being in the back seat) and I would go ballistic if I was all suited up like those guys are and the heater was in the full hot mode. I can empathize with the IP, but I probably would have just called it quits and RTB'd.

FJ

 

[CatfishVT9]

The only problem though with just calling it quit is that it heats up so hot and so quickly that if the stud can't figure it out it could get unbearable before you can get back on deck. If this feriner (southern for guy from another country) had been with me that day, I might have landed without a roof........

 

[SIG600]

Catfish your story reminds me of an Approach article I read of a dude on a Hornet FCF that had the same problem off the cat. ECS went runaway hot and he couldn't do anything about it. By the time they got the deck clear and the ship pulled ahead, and him in the groove, he'd been cooking for quite a few minutes and said the ambient temp in the cockpit had to be between 160 and 180 degrees. He almost lost consciousness from heat exhaustion. Not a position I'd like to be in at the start of the groove.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I found (in UPT-H and UPT) that some of the FAIPs, I'm assuming because they didn't have much experience, tended to overcompensate for their insecurity by berating/being overbearing to the students.

I think almost all the IPs who came off a real-world assignment had more patience and were more laid back. I'm assuming it's because they had seen more, and perceived student errors didn't seem as major to them as the FAIPs.

I think UPT would be a lot better if there were no FAIPs and they took all the instructors after at least one tour in a real airframe.

Note: I went through UPT at Vance as a Capt via FWQ, so it was different for us. We had mostly experienced IPs and not many FAIPs.

Cliff
YIP
FWQ Vance Summer 1989-Spring 1990.

 

[RadioClash]

Don't be too hard on the IP for yelling.

Maybe the IP ate something bad and was doing the thai pinch in the back seat hoping he's not gonna have a colon blow and the heat goes bonkers and well you know what can happen...

 

[Fury220]

Hi!

I found (in UPT-H and UPT) that some of the FAIPs, I'm assuming because they didn't have much experience, tended to overcompensate for their insecurity by berating/being overbearing to the students.

I think almost all the IPs who came off a real-world assignment had more patience and were more laid back. I'm assuming it's because they had seen more, and perceived student errors didn't seem as major to them as the FAIPs.

I think UPT would be a lot better if there were no FAIPs and they took all the instructors after at least one tour in a real airframe.

Note: I went through UPT at Vance as a Capt via FWQ, so it was different for us. We had mostly experienced IPs and not many FAIPs.

Cliff
YIP
FWQ Vance Summer 1989-Spring 1990.

The IP in this incident was a Lt Col...not a FAIP. I don't see how this has anything else to do with FAIPs. So what gives?



...although I won't argue with you about how AETC shouldn't use 'em. I'd be in a fighter right now. :sigh:

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The FAIP thing doesn't have anything directly to do w/ the overheat situation-just an idea that I think would improve the pilot training at UPT.

CLiff
YIP

 

[talondriver]

Good point. As an A-model pilot, that's kind of interesting how the tape makes it sound so quiet, yet we all know that the A/C is cranking out beaucoup heat AND noise.
So, just so I understand: even though the heater is "blowing hot and dry", you won't hear it on the tape, right?

comm and avionics. Unless you drop your mask and key the mic. You may hear the engines whine a little in the background.

Also, when you turn the pitot heat on in the "Chuck" you can hear a slight tone. So if you ask stan if the pitot heat is on and and he says yes, then you hear the faded tone, you know he just turned it on.
Then I'd hook him for lying to me. :uzi:

 

[mudkow60]

F-it.

I recant my statement.

 

[Falconjet]

kow: are you in Mobile yet? When do you start your transition, or have you already finished?

FJ

 

[KC-10 Driver]

Whether the IP was a pr!ck or not, the video was freakin' hilarious. The IP was so worked up, and the student was so clueless.

I suppose it's so funny to me because I was that student many times.

 

[HoursHore]

How's the saying go?

If you want to see really smart people doing really dumb things, become a Training Command Instructor.