T38 Student doesnt turn heat off vid

[Vector4fun]

You T-38 guys can thank me, at least one moderator here (who I will not name), and a bunch of other Holloman IP's for bending the jets all to h3ll. Our mission was to teach BFM, ACM, and ground attack in a dedicated course now long gone... it ended in the early 1990's.

Thanks for allowing an ex-T-38 old fart reminisce a bit.

Hey Gorilla,

Thanks again to you HMN guys for giving controllers T-38 rides too.

I still have photos, didn't uke: once. (Had the O2 and AC going pretty good though)



Too bad they won't let the new generation of controllers do that.

 

[Laxman]

There were two Pakis in my IFF class. It was actually scary to have to fly with them. Nothing like seeing a -38 with around 150 Kts of closure at 1000ft on just a rejoin going to the airspace to make you want to keep an eye on them.

Gorilla, there is no option of resetting the G-meter like in the A/B mod. The electronic nanny is there to tell everyone that you over G'd the jet.

 

[JimNtexas]

"We're all armchair QBs until you find yourself in a situation feeling helpless because stan can't comprehend what you're saying...or worse, lies about the position of his/her switches."

Every F-4 backseater can relate to this situation. I doubt if any of us would throw a stone at this IP.

 

[Huggyu2]

V4Fun,
They ARE still flying Air Traffic controllers, at least in my Wing. It's pretty important, especially here, where we have a lot of ATC/Tower issues when it comes to ops/tower understanding each others LimFacs.

 

[Vector4fun]

Huggy, what base is that? I haven't heard of an FAA controller getting a fun military ride for a decade or so. I think it's a great experience.

 

[FastCargo]

You T-38 guys can thank me, at least one moderator here (who I will not name), and a bunch of other Holloman IP's for bending the jets all to h3ll. Our mission was to teach BFM, ACM, and ground attack in a dedicated course now long gone... it ended in the early 1990's.

Thanks for allowing an ex-T-38 old fart reminisce a bit.

Jeez, that's why none of them fly straight!

"Whatta mean the AOA and airspeed mismatch by 10+ knots...on every jet?"

Now I know who to blame....

FastCargo

PS Though it's already been said, when we 'blow' out the system, it gets really, REALLY hot. It doesn't surprise me that the guy (IP) lost it. Imagine your 3rd sortie, hot TX summertime, you're tired, and now you've got something like a hairdryer cranked up to '11' blowing in your face. And you're trying to communicate to a guy who's English is not great.

A situation similar happened to a crew a few years ago. Except what happened is that they lost right AC power just as it went to full hot. When that happened they couldn't depressurise, turn down the heat, NOTHING! It got so bad that they attempted to make a small hole in the canopy with the canopy breaker tool...unfortunately, the small hole turned into a BIG one in the slipstream. Think about how hot it has to get for you to risk something like that....

 

[AdlerDriver]

......... They looked like F-4's sitting on the ramp.

Part of that was due to the genius I had for an IP in the 433rd. Direct quote: "You can't over-G the jet asymmetrically if you roll with the rudder". We'd go out and G it up to the 6-ish G straight pull limits and then stomp in a nice boot full of rudder. Nice loaded roll but I'm sure it bent the hell out of the jet.
Some of those jets were like old shopping carts..... you couldn't get all the wheels to touch the ground at the same time. :laugh:

 

[Fury220]

Sensitive New Age Pilot

Edit... watch out for Fury... he's the Snapassasin!

haha...don't change your profile while intoxicated!

Lesson learned!

 

[Huggyu2]

I figure some of you CBM folks know the IP on the tape. Is this standard for him, or is he a mild mannered dude?

V4F, the controllers we give rides to are mainly military. But we can and do offer them to FAA types too. It's been a while, but mainly due to us just not thinking of it. I've taken some FAA FSDO folks out in the past. That's good money spent, me thinks.

 

[tmac3333]

For those of you railing on this guy...let's put you in a cockpit that is 150 degrees (not bsing) with runaway heat and you have NO ability in the rear cockpit to turn it down with a student that doesn't speak English real well. This is a good dude who got in a bad situation, with the temperature going from 150 towards 200, the next action is punching off the canopy, then ejecting, so it's understandable that he got a little upset, in other words, if you haven't flown the T-38, lighten up on the dude...by the way Otto, how did you get a hold of this tape? I'm sure my coworker wouldn't appreciate you putting it out on flightinfo.com.

 

[Fury220]

if you haven't flown the T-38, lighten up on the dude...

Shack. It gets BALLS HOT in there with the heat cranked up. Given the right circumstances, this could have been any of us.

I love how everyone is so quick to judge the IP/Stud relationship after seeing a 4 minute clip of this stud's flying. I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck that this wasn't the guys first time dorking up something so simple.


And I love the "why does the stud have all the heat controls" questions. Well, if the A/C rheostat is in the rear pit, how the f*ck do you control the temp when you're solo? Listen folks: there's a reason why we don't take 2Lt Bagodunuts right out of cessnas and plop him in the front pit of a T-38. We expect a degree of aviation horse sense by the time a dude shows up for his dollar ride in a Talon. That's what Phase II is for.

 

[TankerDriver]

by the way Otto, how did you get a hold of this tape? I'm sure my coworker wouldn't appreciate you putting it out on flightinfo.com.

Someone uploaded it to a public video hosting website. Who that someone was, who knows?

 

[Fury220]

Someone uploaded it to a public video hosting website. Who that someone was, who knows?

The vid appeared on BaseOps.net first, then made its way here.

Anyway, it's been the hot email to send around your [email protected] address book for the past couple weeks. Just about everyone I know at work has seen it.

 

[Falconjet]

Really??? Fu**. Man, if I'd have had that I wouldn't have busted 3 sorties in IFF for over-Gs in the A model. No s***, a "deedle?" 4th bust and you're on your way out. Last ride was HABFM....I flew the whole thing staring at the G meter!

And for the guy who said "I'd never let anyone talk to me that way!" Well, yeah you would. If you were a 22 yr old just trying to make it to the next ride, you won't say nothin'. Also, if your country sent you to the US, spending tons of cash in the process, you ain't gonna say nothin' to upset the apple cart. Just the way it is. Would I let anyone talk to me that way now? Of course not. Back then? "Yes, sir."

I have to respectfully disagree with you Mag. I was a 24 (1984) year old in Navy Flight School and I had to have it out with a couple of senior officers (both Marine and Navy) for the way they treated me. Now, granted, I was in the CG and didn't really have to worry about my grades (at that time if you wanted fixed wing you pretty much got it and that is what I wanted), and I was already a whopping O2 with almost 2 years of sea time under my belt (big deal), but I refused to be treated like ******************** by somebody who was supposed to be instructing me.

2 stories, these are personal and the first almost got me canned from flight school.

AI inspection. Got reamed in front of entire class for my ribbons on my uniform. They were in strict compliance with CG uniform policy. Didn't care for the dressing down by a Marine Maj who obviously didn't know how I was to wear my ribbons. Wrote it up in a critique (HUGE mistake), got hauled out of Primary at Whiting to go back to Pcola and stand tall before said Major and his boss. Then got to go stand tall in front of the CG Liaison (O6) Officer after that. Got to explain to my Ops Boss in the VT (another Marine) what had happened. Got the message, every critique after that was a glowing endorsement of the entire Navy training experience. Was told I escaped being kicked out by the skin of my teeth.

Second story: In advanced down in CRP in the T44 with my Italian stick partner. Didn't have a good day in the VFR pattern, got reamed in the debrief by the Navy O4 IP and basically accused of being hung over because I was so bad. That was enough of that shiat. You can write me up all you want or give me a down, but to say that to someone who you can't reach with your obviously superior instructional skills (not) is not trying or coming to work hung over is extremely unprofessional. I stood up in the debrief room and explained in a nice loud voice for everybody else to hear that I wouldn't stand for that. People started to gather around to see what was up. The IP simply said that we wouldn't be flying together anymore and I said that it was fine by me.

Got a warmup/eval ride the next day with the Ops O (another Marine) and then moved along through the program with no trouble.

I went on to instruct in the Falcon in the CG "RAG" and I never treated a stud that way. No need or call for it. In fact the entire CG training philosophy was to train to proficiency. Almost everybody could be taught eventually with the right person there to help them (and not necessarily me either, of course).

So although I don't know about this particular incident or IP and will withold judgement, I do think that every stud/JO deserves to get treated with respect and courtesy even if they are having a bad day. Sometimes you just need a change of venue to get through to somebody.

FJ

 

[SIG600]

I gotta agree with Magnum... FJ I think your case was a a little different as you had little more of a leg to stand on. You wern't some wet behind the ears O-1. But when you're just trying to make it through and get along with the IP's... you take your reaming just as Mag said, and move on. The flip side to that is said IP gets a reputaion, and is remembered later on. I've heard of (and flown with) several IP's that were dickheads in the VT's, and guys that came back, remembering, shyt all over them. What goes around comes around I guess. I remember a few myself. I just don't see the benefit in yelling and screaming like that. You may as well turn around and cank they hop because for all practical purposes learning has stopped at that point. Trying to salvage anything beneficial is more or less a waste of gas IMHO.

Funny story (Primary Urban Legend)... IP gets pissed in back of T-34 and chucks kneeboard at knuckle head up front. Stud. pops canopy and tosses IP's kneeboard out. Don't know if it's true or not, but funny none the less.