SWAPA might like SWA proposal

[Falcon Jet 1]

We all know that GK has more than one plan, he didnt spend over a billion dollars to have pilots dictate how he is going to run his company.

 

[burg]

Todd, Have you gotten more retarded as you have gotten older?

Just wondering,

your friend
JTV

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Like one or several of your LUV brothers have stated, you guys really need to understand what is acceptable to you. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that a staple in any sort of fashion will not fly. Not with Airtran, not with any group, I don't think. The Frontier guys turned down a staple. Even as their company was in dire financial stress. How in the world do you expect a group from an airline that was in solid financial footing to take anything resembling a staple? It is not reasonable, and quite frankly highly impossible. I don't care how much you brag about your pay, and this and that. Even the humiliation tactics won't work.

I fail to see where the combined Airtran group is crying arbitration or nothing. They have stated that if a fair deal is not reached, that they are ready to take their chances in arbitration. What choice do they have? To take what you are offering even if they consider it unacceptable? Again, unacceptable might be some sort of a staple, for the record. That is the process that you guys agreed to. It's just a logical step in the order of things. You may not like it, they may not like it, but that is the process. Besides, if you are so sure of the "ultimate" outcome, why do you appear so afraid of it?

You have stated that if you don't like the results, the whole thing could be nuked. Well, with that in mind, if I was a LUV guy, I'd be pushing for arbitration til kingdom come, and eventually get my dream scenario. After all, you guys don't appear to think that you need Airtran and the synergies that might be realized with a combined group, right? Don't worry, DAL agrees with you. Heck, Anderson will even cheer you on!

While Southwest has always managed to outperform and defy nay sayers, I think this time you could end up on the wrong side of History. In your nuke scenario, you would be putting gainfully employed families on the street. Those pilots, gate agents, res. agents, etc. etc., have families as well. Families that by all accounts were somewhat comfortable in their situations before your arrival. I'm not implying that LUV pilots had anything to do with the purchase of that carrier. Some of you, however, are very clear in your desires if you don't get your way. Wether it's serious or implied, possible or impossible, I don't think it's cool at all. I know, you could careless what I think, fine.

Ask anybody that was at TWA and see how they felt when the rug was pulled from under them. At least in the TWA case, 911 had a lot to do with it. Here it would be like junior not getting his way and telling daddy to kill it. Totally different circumstances. If that makes you sleep well at night, then by all means. Rest assured, however, that most in the pilot world no matter how intense the competition between our carriers, would never wish that upon you. Regardless of how much I may, or, may not disagree with you.

I think you are failing to understand the basic point here. I don't think anyone really wants the nuclear option. I think I can speak for the vast majority of the group when I say we hope this works for the long term benefit of all and we can move on together as a srong united group.
The point is that given the choice of a bad SLI or continuing to go it alone we would prefer to continue to go on our way on our own. The problem really is that almost anything your side seems to be to consider "acceptable" will damage the career earnings of almost every SWAPA pilot while greatly increasing the career earnings of almost every AAI pilot.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Like one or several of your LUV brothers have stated, you guys really need to understand what is acceptable to you. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that a staple in any sort of fashion will not fly. Not with Airtran, not with any group, I don't think. The Frontier guys turned down a staple. Even as their company was in dire financial stress. How in the world do you expect a group from an airline that was in solid financial footing to take anything resembling a staple? It is not reasonable, and quite frankly highly impossible. I don't care how much you brag about your pay, and this and that. Even the humiliation tactics won't work.

I fail to see where the combined Airtran group is crying arbitration or nothing. They have stated that if a fair deal is not reached, that they are ready to take their chances in arbitration. What choice do they have? To take what you are offering even if they consider it unacceptable? Again, unacceptable might be some sort of a staple, for the record. That is the process that you guys agreed to. It's just a logical step in the order of things. You may not like it, they may not like it, but that is the process. Besides, if you are so sure of the "ultimate" outcome, why do you appear so afraid of it?

You have stated that if you don't like the results, the whole thing could be nuked. Well, with that in mind, if I was a LUV guy, I'd be pushing for arbitration til kingdom come, and eventually get my dream scenario. After all, you guys don't appear to think that you need Airtran and the synergies that might be realized with a combined group, right? Don't worry, DAL agrees with you. Heck, Anderson will even cheer you on!

While Southwest has always managed to outperform and defy nay sayers, I think this time you could end up on the wrong side of History. In your nuke scenario, you would be putting gainfully employed families on the street. Those pilots, gate agents, res. agents, etc. etc., have families as well. Families that by all accounts were somewhat comfortable in their situations before your arrival. I'm not implying that LUV pilots had anything to do with the purchase of that carrier. Some of you, however, are very clear in your desires if you don't get your way. Wether it's serious or implied, possible or impossible, I don't think it's cool at all. I know, you could careless what I think, fine.

Ask anybody that was at TWA and see how they felt when the rug was pulled from under them. At least in the TWA case, 911 had a lot to do with it. Here it would be like junior not getting his way and telling daddy to kill it. Totally different circumstances. If that makes you sleep well at night, then by all means. Rest assured, however, that most in the pilot world no matter how intense the competition between our carriers, would never wish that upon you. Regardless of how much I may, or, may not disagree with you.

Oh boo hoo. All of us in the cheap seats feel very sad for you and your golden lottery ticket with the massive pay increases and benefits when your crappy airline got bought out by Southwest.

You would have dropped to your knees for a SWA job before they buyout was announced. Now it's just greed.

 

[dedazo]

Oh Boo hoo Dylan... 0028 at night on a friday and making another trashing post on flight info......you are a real winner huh? LOL

 

[madjack]

Mr Kelly did not make an offer, he attempted to aid negotiations by making a SLI proposal...now it is up to the pilots to do their job and make a deal...the entire airline industry achieves seniority by the date of hire, no other metric...there is NO WAY that you can argue that it is FAIR to let pilots from the LESSER COMPANY (the one that was bought, the one that paid less, the one that was much less attractive to work for) hold CP seats ahead of FOs from the stronger, purchasing company who have been at the PURCHASING company longer...that would be a grotesque industry precedent.

 

[Kharma Police]

Mr Kelly did not make an offer, he attempted to aid negotiations by making a SLI proposal...now it is up to the pilots to do their job and make a deal...the entire airline industry achieves seniority by the date of hire, no other metric...there is NO WAY that you can argue that it is FAIR to let pilots from the LESSER COMPANY (the one that was bought, the one that paid less, the one that was much less attractive to work for) hold CP seats ahead of FOs from the stronger, purchasing company who have been at the PURCHASING company longer...that would be a grotesque industry precedent.

You must have gained quite a bit of business negotiating experience in the Navy with the strict DoD profit margins and Unionized Sailors. The SERE School Executive MBA Program in Brunswick probably taught you your negotiating theories?

 

[madjack]

Kharma,

I think I a got at least as much management experience in the navy as you did flying cessnas. Right now you and I are two pilots, with two dates of hire, working for what is about to be, fortunately for you, the same STRONG company.

Kharma said: The SERE School Executive MBA Program in Brunswick probably taught you your negotiating theories?

When I was getting water boarded at SERE school, raises and benefits never came up...

 

[Kharma Police]

Kharma,

I think I a got at least as much management experience in the navy as you did flying cessnas. Right now you and I are two pilots, with two dates of hire, working for what is about to be, fortunately for you, the same STRONG company.

Kharma said: The SERE School Executive MBA Program in Brunswick probably taught you your negotiating theories?

When I was getting water boarded at SERE school, raises and benefits never came up...

Good, then you will have no problem allowing the process to work itself out as negotiated by both parties.

 

[madjack]

KP said: Good, then you will have no problem allowing the process to work itself out as negotiated by both parties.

No more problem than you do...

 

[Kharma Police]

KP said: Good, then you will have no problem allowing the process to work itself out as negotiated by both parties.

No more problem than you do...

I have no issues as we have consistently played by the rules. I guarantee SWAPA would do the same if given an unacceptable first offer.

 

[GuppyWN]

I took a paycut and went to the end of the line when I went to WN. Seems to me that anything better than that is a bonus.

Gup

 

[zippy32]

I think you are failing to understand the basic point here. I don't think anyone really wants the nuclear option. I think I can speak for the vast majority of the group when I say we hope this works for the long term benefit of all and we can move on together as a srong united group.
The point is that given the choice of a bad SLI or continuing to go it alone we would prefer to continue to go on our way on our own. The problem really is that almost anything your side seems to be to consider "acceptable" will damage the career earnings of almost every SWAPA pilot while greatly increasing the career earnings of almost every AAI pilot.

Very good post Ghetto. Let's get this done.

 

[ASADFW7]

From what I have read no SWA postings have leaked information in the deal. The SWA guys are negotiating in good faith, I wonder where the AAI guys are getting their information? Are the AAI leaks to inflame membership when the basic value of many people's livelihoods are on the table. Like it or not, this is serious business going on in Dallas. Swapa is working on a deal, AAI ??? Maybe not so much. The AAI leak does not give the context of the whole package, and that is unfair for everyone not to have the whole context. Like it or not SWA guys are not happy about this, or the leaks. They are also not happy a few AAI pilots are undercutting the process. The average SWA pilot has no cards to undermine the process, it is interesting that pcl is the good will killing machine between our two groups. An alpa rep who is unprofessional and irresponsible with the memberships interest. If in the end there is harm to the AAI pilot group from leaks, pin in on your leadership and individuals who didn't know how to act around big business. Sorry folks these are billion dollar deals, and child games are behind us. Like it or not the deal presented will take a lot of adjustment for both sides.

 

[Just thinking]

Whose H34?