SWAPA might like SWA proposal

[madjack]

According to some reports, senior FO's at aai would lose close to 32 % under the latest proposal that didn't make it out for a vote....

Would any of the former AAI CPs that are now SWA FOs care to weigh in?

 

[frqntflyr]

It's less laughable than saying an arbitrated list would result in no
merging of the lists.

GK has told the SEC and the investment community that he is fully
merging the operations. If he lied about that material fact to investors he could end up in jail, and the lawsuits from investors could last for
years and result in the ultimate downfall of the airline. WAKE UP!

Have you ever read a 10-Q, 10-K, 8-K, etc? Do yourself a favor and read any company's fine print in the Forward Looking Statements. Gary will do what he needs to.

Thanks for the chuckle on the jail time, btw!!! Good stuff

 

[kwick]

The good thing you mentioned that. I really do not think that SWAPA knew that. It seems that Airtran really has SWAPA in a good position. Everybody thought that SWAPA would control this but after reading your post and the other legal experts like PCL, Ty and Lear70 it seems like SWAPA will have to give in to your demands or face the music. You should at least give them a way out to save face.

No one thought SWAPA would control this.

It's negotiation and then arbitration. Where have you been?

And a "yes" vote on a vote made with a "gun to your head" , the
"nuclear option", is as worthless as a confession "with a gun to
your head", it's called coercion. It won't stand up in court.

Stay Classy!

 

[Juniority]

There was a lot of speculation about GK's motives in how the Frontier situation went down. In hindsight it seemed to be just a manuever to make Republic pay more than Frontier was worth.

....and maybe this whole meeting wasn't about getting an agreement. Wonder what the outcome of yesterday's meeting will look like from a year down the road.

There's every chance that GK and his boys walked out of that meeting, looked at each other and said, "well, that went just like we thought it would go." Just setting the stage for later action.

 

[redflyer65]

Have you ever read a 10-Q, 10-K, 8-K, etc? Do yourself a favor and read any company's fine print in the Forward Looking Statements. Gary will do what he needs to.

Thanks for the chuckle on the jail time, btw!!! Good stuff

Spot on. How many pre-merger announcements have we all heard where they say 'no one will lose their jobs' or 'no decrease service', when in the end, guess what?

Do to circumstances beyond our control, we have to 'close this station', or 'decrease service'. This happens all the time in every industry. None of these guys have gone to jail. Give me a break.

 

[waveflyer]

I don't know why you're talking about financial benefits. We aren't merging pay checks, we're merging seniority. The two have nothing to do with each other.

PCL-

I love the movie Anchorman. Classic will Ferrell.

"Ron Burgundy: Thanks for watching Channel 4 News. You stay classy, San Diego. I'm Ron Burgundy?
Ed Harken: Damn it, who typed a question mark on the teleprompter? How many times do I have to tell you? Anything you type, Burgundy will read!"

Veronica sneakily changes the prompter...:
"Ron Burgundy: Go f^ck yourself, San Diego!"

The problem for you PCL is you're a public figure still representing ALPA, and regardless of recall still know you represent a good % at AT. AND, we all know the movie too and that you're basically telling ALL of SWAPA to go f^ck themselves. Read, youre not telling me to, or swa/fo, or bob dylan, or any other troll. You're telling ALL of us.

That's not lost on anyone.

Change your f^cking signature.

Or don't. But who you are and the chaos you represent is crystal clear. Again, you guys want to back this guy and what he represents, go ahead.

 

[madjack]

Let the negotiators (with the aid of the company) NEGOTIATE...geez

 

[Elwood Blues]

FACT: The ATN MEC has R-E-J-E-C-T-E-D the SWA Management SLI proposal. That means that it will not go out to the ATN pilot group for a vote, and rightly so.

DV,
Rest assured there is a stick nearby while you are counting all your carrots, even if you can't see it. It is there. While I am sure SW Mgt wants a smooth integration they would be fools to not have a plan in case things go poorly. What would you do if you were GK to fix a bad acquisition? Me, I'd treat it like a medical condition, starting with pills then moving on to surgery to cut out the problem. That approach can be done with businesses also. Be careful and don't overplay your hand.

Elwood

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

PCL is doing more harm to aai than good.

 

[dicko]

According to some reports, senior FO's at aai would lose close to 32 % under the latest proposal that didn't make it out for a vote....

Would any of the former all the AAI CPs that are proposed to be future SWA FOs care to weigh in?

Ill weigh in ..... Stapling all AirTran FO's is not a serious offer.

 

[kwick]

Spot on. How many pre-merger announcements have we all heard where they say 'no one will lose their jobs' or 'no decrease service', when in the end, guess what?

Do to circumstances beyond our control, we have to 'close this station', or 'decrease service'. This happens all the time in every industry. None of these guys have gone to jail. Give me a break.

I didn't base my investment on whether employees may lose their jobs.

But to misrepresent your stated intent to merge the operations,
to take advantage of the economies of scale, is opening the door
for years of litigation.

And if was shown that he intended to that, all along, it would
be fraud.

It's interesting that some of you are implying that is, in fact, what is going
on.

Hope GK is has a document shreder.

 

[redflyer65]

Neither is a 70% pay increase with the addition of anything close to DOH/RS.

Agree to disagree maybe.

 

[Juniority]

Ill weigh in ..... Stapling all AirTran FO's is not a serious offer.

Why would you take madjack's words, put them in a quote box and then change them? If you quote somebody, don't change what they said.

Really bad form. Makes you seem childish.

 

[redflyer65]

I didn't base my investment on whether employees may lose their jobs.

But to misrepresent your stated intent to merge the operations,
to take advantage of the economies of scale, is opening the door
for years of litigation.

And if was shown that he intended to that, all along, it would
be fraud.

Cooking the accounting books like Enron and others will get you fraud, changing forward looking statement to match the 'reality of today' will not. Things change, it's business.

These forward looking statements ALWAYS come with disclaimers. Again, have you ever read any SEC filings? They are always there. Always.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Neither is a 70% pay increase and anything close to DOH/RS.

Agree to disagree maybe.

I'm not seeing anywhere near a 70% pay increase, not even close even after figuring in 401K, profit sharing, and comparing it before the measly raise from the last CBA. And, the increase that I am seeing is not worth giving up a lot of seniority for, sorry.

 

[dicko]

Neither is a 70% pay increase and anything close to DOH/RS.

Agree to disagree maybe.

Find an arbiter that will knock 40% off a mid seniority CA then. Good luck.

Having said that ... Yes, I agree that we disagree.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Since no one can or will source the claim of a rejection by the AAI MEC I think this last volley might be based on a rumor.

 

[redflyer65]

The pre-announcement AAI FO rate topped out at 79/hr.

It now tops out at 101/hr. That was because of the announcement.

That in it self is a 30 percent payraise! I wouldn't call that measly raise, but whatever.

Sooo 79/hr at AAI vs 148/hr at SW equals.... way more than 70%

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Since no one can or will source the claim of a rejection by the AAI MEC I think this last volley might be based on a rumor.

I think shootr posted it (the rumor you mention) briefly last evening and then deleted it (I read it before it was deleted but don't remember well enough to quote him). He might know where he got his info from.

 

[redflyer65]

Since no one can or will source the claim of a rejection by the AAI MEC I think this last volley might be based on a rumor.

I have to agree. Hopefully things are still being worked on.

 

[dicko]

Why would you take madjack's words, put them in a quote box and then change them? If you quote somebody, don't change what they said.

Really bad form. Makes you seem childish.

That was funny.

Maybe you need to talk to your Negotiators then. It's appropriate.

When you're done there. Have a look at some of your peers posts over the last few months for the childish and bad form.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

I'm not seeing anywhere near a 70% pay increase, not even close even after figuring in 401K, profit sharing, and comparing it before the measly raise from the last CBA. And, the increase that I am seeing is not worth giving up a lot of seniority for, sorry.

From your posts it would seem that you would be more than content if this whole thing went away. That may be the only thing that you and the SWAPA pilots agree on.

 

[redflyer65]

Find an arbiter that will knock 40% off a mid seniority CA then. Good luck.

Having said that ... Yes, I agree that we disagree.

Ok. So on the CA side, they should go from 150/hr to 210/hr and not lose any seniority?

That isn't going to work...arbitor, or no arbitor. I feel sorry for the good AAI guys like you Dicko if this gets pushed too far. It won't be pretty. SW management is hard core, get their way guys. SWAPA is easy, SW might not be.

 

[Empennage]

Find an arbiter that will knock 40% off a mid seniority CA then. Good luck.

Having said that ... Yes, I agree that we disagree.

This is Not really the place to discuss this. Ask pcl and your other reps to give you the option to vote on your future. If you agree on whatever is presented, vote yes. If not, vote no.

Its my opinion each pilot group should have a chance to decide on their futures. It should be an educated vote based on all of the facts, not simply the few talking points which have been presented thus far.

If you really think arbitration is where you want to go, vote for it. Quite possibly your mc and MEC might decide that for you. It's legal and you did elect them as your duly elected reps.

Some, if not most of this, at this juncture is pointless.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

I think shootr posted it (the rumor you mention) briefly last evening and then deleted it (I read it before it was deleted but don't remember well enough to quote him). He might know where he got his info from.

Well today it was posted by non other than PCL. I'll bump it

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

The AirTran MEC did not endorse the proposal. The Merger Committees are back at the bargaining table today.

PCL care to clarify?

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

If SWAPA will not allow any "harm" to come to any SWAPA pilot, why on Earth would anyone from SWAPA think that ATN ALPA would not demand the same thing for their pilots?

FACT: The ATN MEC has R-E-J-E-C-T-E-D the SWA Management SLI proposal. That means that it will not go out to the ATN pilot group for a vote, and rightly so. They won't send an unequitable and unfair proposal to our pilot group to vote on. Why would they? To waste time seeing it get voted down? Then we start over with a slightly better proposal and it too gets voted down. Where does it end?

The ATN MEC and MC will send us a proposal at some point that they feel is respectful of our pilot group if there is one to be had. If not, then we're all headed to federal arbitration where this will be settled by a neutral 3rd party. As I've stated time and time again, I have no problem with that.

Don please source your "FACT"

 

[Empennage]

That was funny.

Maybe you need to talk to your Negotiators then. It's appropriate.

When you're done there. Have a look at some of your peers posts over the last few months for the childish and bad form.

Did you just say "I know you are but what am I?"

I'm trying to get everyone to laugh. Let's lighten up ... Weekend is here.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

The pre-announcement AAI FO rate topped out at 79/hr.

It now tops out at 101/hr. That was because of the announcement.

That in it self is a 30 percent payraise! I wouldn't call that measly raise, but whatever.

Sooo 79/hr at AAI vs 148/hr at SW equals.... way more than 70%

My raise was in the single digits percentage wise. After 6 years of negotiations, that is measly.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL care to clarify?

Clarify what? It was pretty clear. The proposal wasn't accepted, and the MCs are back negotiating. What is so confusing about that?