SWAPA is a joke

[8v8tr]

Just wanted to save this tidbit for future use.

Scoreboard save your tidbit for whatever you want...but my point is some SWAPA guys are being unrealistic in this whole thing. If this was not a total windfall for you guys then there would not have been a 19-0 vote by your BOD.

And to be fair some AT guys are not being relistic either, but I blast them to on our own private boards.

The point is it will never be possible to make everyone happy, the MEC/BOD will be looking for 50+1% is all they need to pass.

 

[boeing717]

Scoreboard save your tidbit for whatever you want...but my point is some SWAPA guys are being unrealistic in this whole thing. If this was not a total windfall for you guys then there would not have been a 19-0 vote by your BOD.

And to be fair some AT guys are not being relistic either, but I blast them to on our own private boards.

The point is it will never be possible to make everyone happy, the MEC/BOD will be looking for 50+1% is all they need to pass.

Airtran will vote and it will pass. The First Officers will get over it.

 

[canyonblue]

Come on this is very good for you guys, most everyone except the top 1653 gain close to 12% senority and have 140, plus 53 orders to grow the combined companies..

Very good? Seriously? Like you say what good does a 12% boost in seniority do me if we have a downturn in the economy, or worse. Guys flying at AAI who are years junior to me, will stay Captains and make more than me. You say that "Seniority is everything in this business...everything!" just what exactly does that 12% do for me just incase as you put it "money and contracts come and go", please explain.

 

[8v8tr]

Very good? Seriously? Like you say what good does a 12% boost in seniority do me if we have a downturn in the economy, or worse. Guys flying at AAI who are years junior to me, will stay Captains and make more than me. You say that "Seniority is everything in this business...everything!" just what exactly does that 12% do for me just incase as you put it "money and contracts come and go", please explain.

ok very good, maybe a stretch, but good if not fair is a better word.

I will say if you did not have this then you would be worse off right? since now you have more people behind you then before? So you protections are greater, and with the predicted growth you will upgrade faster. There is probably only about 100 guys junior to you that will be capts anyhow. but dont know the exact number, could be higher. but remember in every arbitrated award CA always kept there seats. FWIW

 

[scoreboardII]

8v8tr, your MEC already has it's 50+1%.

Every captain get's his seat for life, thats 50%.

Some on the bottom FO list want over no matter what, thats the 1%.

Everyone gets our pay Apr 2012, It's a done deal.

 

[CHQ Pilot]

Just a point for clarification..the SL9 reads that the AT pilots will transition to the SWAPA CBA (pay and benefits) when they go through SWA training beginning after April 1, 2012 for a period up to 30 months. It's not instantaneous and it will be through a bid process on who gets trained first. It's just a minor point, but I didn't want anyone to be misconstrued.

 

[Lear70]

8v8tr, your MEC already has it's 50+1%.

Every captain get's his seat for life, thats 50%.

Some on the bottom FO list want over no matter what, thats the 1%.

That's not even close to correct. Some of the loudest NO voters on our internal board are Captains.

Everyone gets our pay Apr 2012, It's a done deal.

We don't get the TFP conversion until we start training, so we get PART of the pay raise in April, but not all of it. TFP conversion represents a 30-40% increase over just straight credit.

 

[PCL_128]

Feel better?

Now let's break out the calculator and tally your earnings, retirement, profit sharing and reduced benefit costs for the remainder of your career and we'll clearly see that your career expectations have been met.

Congratulations!
Gup

My career expectations were to upgrade at some point prior to the tricentennial. So no, expectations not met.

 

[CHQ Pilot]

Lear,

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I didn't read anything that said you get the rates but not the TFP conversion until training. The only thing I read was that AT pilots would receive SWAPA CBA when they went through training. I assume that would be time AT goes from the current contract and pay to the SWAPA CBA.

 

[GuppyWN]

My career expectations were to upgrade at some point prior to the tricentennial. So no, expectations not met.

That is a sticky point! But the good news is you're going to make Airtran captain pay for YEARS before you would have upgraded over there.

I hear you barking but I think you're voting yes!

Gup

 

[PCL_128]

I hear you barking but I think you're voting yes!

No, definitely voting no. But I won't be suicidal if it passes, either, because the 10 year fence protects my QOL while I get the pay raise. Worst case scenario, this passes, I buy a sailboat and give away a week of flying every month while I spend time in the Caribbean. So yes, things could definitely be worse.

 

[RLAblows]

My career expectations were to upgrade at some point prior to the tricentennial. So no, expectations not met.

You would have to actually fly to upgrade.

 

[BlueBlood]

Please, let's start thinking logically here, folks.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I didn't read anything that said you get the rates but not the TFP conversion until training. The only thing I read was that AT pilots would receive SWAPA CBA when they went through training. I assume that would be time AT goes from the current contract and pay to the SWAPA CBA.

It's not in SL9, it's in our LOA which modifies OUR contract. Pay RATES are given to all AAI pilots effective 4/1/12. TFP isn't until we go to training.

What also isn't in SL9 but is in our LOA coming out:

We lose our 10.5% B-fund in January (before the pay raise) but are eligible for the 401(k) match of 9.3% you get, but we have to pay into it to get it, so for 3 months we take a 9.3% take-home pay decrease to keep something NEAR our B-fund, but less. We're also allegedly eligible for the profit sharing, but with the costs of all this, I'm not sure profit sharing is going to be great for a couple years.

Allegedly we go on your medical benefits January 1st as well, but SL9 says "insurance and other benefits" when we come to training. They may be talking about loss of license insurance and other products, we don't know yet.

Releasing restrictions in our scheduling rules that will (allegedly) allow SWA to build more productive trips. We don't know exactly which rules were dropped yet, whether it's the rig or simply some of our west coast flying constraints that give us our long west-coast overnights, that info isn't out yet.

There's lots of stuff that applies to us that doesn't carry over to Southwest so it wasn't included in your SL9, it just modifies OUR CBA.

Hope that explains it.

 

[jonjuan]

That's not even close to correct. Some of the loudest NO voters on our internal board are Captains.

Yep- ScoreboardII, you just got owned.