SWAPA is a joke

[CHQ Pilot]

Just a point for clarification..the SL9 reads that the AT pilots will transition to the SWAPA CBA (pay and benefits) when they go through SWA training beginning after April 1, 2012 for a period up to 30 months. It's not instantaneous and it will be through a bid process on who gets trained first. It's just a minor point, but I didn't want anyone to be misconstrued.

 

[Lear70]

8v8tr, your MEC already has it's 50+1%.

Every captain get's his seat for life, thats 50%.

Some on the bottom FO list want over no matter what, thats the 1%.

That's not even close to correct. Some of the loudest NO voters on our internal board are Captains.

Everyone gets our pay Apr 2012, It's a done deal.

We don't get the TFP conversion until we start training, so we get PART of the pay raise in April, but not all of it. TFP conversion represents a 30-40% increase over just straight credit.

 

[PCL_128]

Feel better?

Now let's break out the calculator and tally your earnings, retirement, profit sharing and reduced benefit costs for the remainder of your career and we'll clearly see that your career expectations have been met.

Congratulations!
Gup

My career expectations were to upgrade at some point prior to the tricentennial. So no, expectations not met.

 

[CHQ Pilot]

Lear,

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I didn't read anything that said you get the rates but not the TFP conversion until training. The only thing I read was that AT pilots would receive SWAPA CBA when they went through training. I assume that would be time AT goes from the current contract and pay to the SWAPA CBA.

 

[GuppyWN]

My career expectations were to upgrade at some point prior to the tricentennial. So no, expectations not met.

That is a sticky point! But the good news is you're going to make Airtran captain pay for YEARS before you would have upgraded over there.

I hear you barking but I think you're voting yes!

Gup

 

[PCL_128]

I hear you barking but I think you're voting yes!

No, definitely voting no. But I won't be suicidal if it passes, either, because the 10 year fence protects my QOL while I get the pay raise. Worst case scenario, this passes, I buy a sailboat and give away a week of flying every month while I spend time in the Caribbean. So yes, things could definitely be worse.

 

[RLAblows]

My career expectations were to upgrade at some point prior to the tricentennial. So no, expectations not met.

You would have to actually fly to upgrade.

 

[BlueBlood]

Please, let's start thinking logically here, folks.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I didn't read anything that said you get the rates but not the TFP conversion until training. The only thing I read was that AT pilots would receive SWAPA CBA when they went through training. I assume that would be time AT goes from the current contract and pay to the SWAPA CBA.

It's not in SL9, it's in our LOA which modifies OUR contract. Pay RATES are given to all AAI pilots effective 4/1/12. TFP isn't until we go to training.

What also isn't in SL9 but is in our LOA coming out:

We lose our 10.5% B-fund in January (before the pay raise) but are eligible for the 401(k) match of 9.3% you get, but we have to pay into it to get it, so for 3 months we take a 9.3% take-home pay decrease to keep something NEAR our B-fund, but less. We're also allegedly eligible for the profit sharing, but with the costs of all this, I'm not sure profit sharing is going to be great for a couple years.

Allegedly we go on your medical benefits January 1st as well, but SL9 says "insurance and other benefits" when we come to training. They may be talking about loss of license insurance and other products, we don't know yet.

Releasing restrictions in our scheduling rules that will (allegedly) allow SWA to build more productive trips. We don't know exactly which rules were dropped yet, whether it's the rig or simply some of our west coast flying constraints that give us our long west-coast overnights, that info isn't out yet.

There's lots of stuff that applies to us that doesn't carry over to Southwest so it wasn't included in your SL9, it just modifies OUR CBA.

Hope that explains it.

 

[jonjuan]

That's not even close to correct. Some of the loudest NO voters on our internal board are Captains.

Yep- ScoreboardII, you just got owned.

 

[texman]

My career expectations were to upgrade at some point prior to the tricentennial. So no, expectations not met.

Thats BS. You are so narrow minded when it comes to business. I will say again! YOUR COMPANY IN THE LONG HAD NO MONEY! SO WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN YOUR CAREER EXPECTATIONS? Stop thinking like a pilot! Plus don't you retire# 2?

 

[CHQ Pilot]

Lear,

Thanks for the reply. You answered a lot of questions I had about different pieces. Thanks for the info.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Coming from the guy turned down at Southwest numerous times and then begged for a staple a few weeks before they bought you. LOL

Wow, I'll bet you're a crack poker player! Not.

Hey CP, what's Brown doing for you?

Keep it up.

 

[madjack]

Just remember that ALPA has had a helping hand in destroying many airlines and with them jobs...SWAPA has been able to great narrow body pay rates and workrules, all without furlough...If ALPA Airtran keeps this deal from the membership, you will regret it for the rest of your airline career...you have the right to be part of the process...

Your CPs were protected, but it came at the expense of seniority and your FOs...

 

[8v8tr]

Just remember that ALPA has had a helping hand in destroying many airlines and with them jobs...SWAPA has been able to great narrow body pay rates and workrules, all without furlough...If ALPA Airtran keeps this deal from the membership, you will regret it for the rest of your airline career...you have the right to be part of the process...

Your CPs were protected, but it came at the expense of seniority and your FOs...

Good point. There is major push from the membership to be sure we get a chance to look and see for ourself. This is way too big a decision left up to 10 people.

 

[greenpilot]

It's not in SL9, it's in our LOA which modifies OUR contract. Pay RATES are given to all AAI pilots effective 4/1/12. TFP isn't until we go to training.

What also isn't in SL9 but is in our LOA coming out:

We lose our 10.5% B-fund in January (before the pay raise) but are eligible for the 401(k) match of 9.3% you get, but we have to pay into it to get it, so for 3 months we take a 9.3% take-home pay decrease to keep something NEAR our B-fund, but less. We're also allegedly eligible for the profit sharing, but with the costs of all this, I'm not sure profit sharing is going to be great for a couple years.

Allegedly we go on your medical benefits January 1st as well, but SL9 says "insurance and other benefits" when we come to training. They may be talking about loss of license insurance and other products, we don't know yet.

Releasing restrictions in our scheduling rules that will (allegedly) allow SWA to build more productive trips. We don't know exactly which rules were dropped yet, whether it's the rig or simply some of our west coast flying constraints that give us our long west-coast overnights, that info isn't out yet.

There's lots of stuff that applies to us that doesn't carry over to Southwest so it wasn't included in your SL9, it just modifies OUR CBA.

Hope that explains it.

Lear we may not get trip for pay but we get the pay per hour at the converted rate. 7 yr Fo pay is $141.71/hr. I don't see a big loss. As far as the 11.5 vs 9.3. You have to be a fool not to be putting at least 10% of your own money into your 401. So your take home should not change. Take a look at swa retirement plan. It blows ours out of the water. They have so many more ways to invest in your retirement.

 

[SkiFishFly]

Good point. There is major push from the membership to be sure we get a chance to look and see for ourself. This is way too big a decision left up to 10 people.

I'm not convinced we will get a vote...

 

[8v8tr]

I'm not convinced we will get a vote...

well if we dont what are our options? Recall ALPO perhaps? lets hope we dont have to cross that bridge...

The point is if we know for a fact a threat was made or not make a big difference for sure

 

[AFcitrus]

Not unless the protection language is rock solid...and even then it's a crapshoot.

Our MC's stated goals were to get an agreement that would not require fences, seat protection etc. Obviously we failed to meet the goals as set forth prior to negotiating. In light of that the MEC would have every right to kill the deal. However I'm not sure if those were offical or anecdotl (sp?) goals.

I personally would rather have taken 1/2 the seniority loss (say 12-15%) with no fences, protections, etc. Then even guys who lost seats would be extremely senior FOs and if GK's growth assertions are correct they would be Capts pretty quick again. However, someone decided to protect EVERY AT captain seat at a cost of more that 1500 seniority numbers (and 4 years seniority). And this comes from a junior Capt. Oh well, I just work here.

 

[-9Capt]

well if we dont what are our options?

Continue to arbitration as per the process agreement, just like all interested parties agreed to.

We're integrating seniority, not pay rates. People seem to forget that. CBA's have ammendable dates, pay and benefits change, my reduced seniority won't.

Assuming our MEC releases this to the group, this senior capt is voting no.