SWAPA is a joke

[madjack]

I thought we were talking about a combined SWA operation...I mean isn't that what we are involved with here??

 

[Fubijaakr]

Fubi, why are you on here? You are beginning to sound like General Lee, and you know how many people like him.

Because someone needs to inject a little ray of third party rational sunshine into the debate.

However, it is apparent you are solidly entrenched into your plot to rob the AAI guys of their rightful seniority, using the red herring pay raise excuse as justification.

The problem is, if you succeed you'll have at least 700 chapped ex-AAI pilots who will never forgive OR forget.

And there goes your "SWA culture" you like to brag about.

 

[madjack]

700 vs 6000, in life you run into **************************************** every 1 in 7 or 8....

 

[Lear70]

That's the other issue involved (and the biggest single issue I see in SL9).

There's no minimum number of crews that have to come over with each 737 that's transferred and no requirement to bring the 717 over at all, nor is the 30 month limit even a hard limit. It can be extended upon mutual agreement between SWAPA and SWA.

The whole paragraph basically says Southwest can determine how many pilots they offer "transition slots" to, based on the staffing needs of both companies. So if more 737-300's are retired than they take deliveries of -700's or -800's from Boeing, you'll have a surplus of crews. Transition 4 of our 737's over, but you won't need the crews for all 4, maybe just enough for 2 or 3. So they're left on our side of the fence un-transitioned, reducing the average block hours (there's a section that waives all the minimums in our bases) and putting more pilots on reserve.

So until we ARE a combined operation, we have to worry about what's in SL9. That may not be for years to come if the 30-month limit is lengthened.

Now you know what's taking so long on the language... ALPA doesn't want to get sued again for leaving "known issues" out there and causing massive furloughs on the AAI side before integration - TWA all over again. They're a bit gun-shy, can't imagine why.

It'll all work out, I have faith, just have to let the process work.

 

[redflyer65]

using the red herring pay raise excuse as justification.

.

Red herring? Ahh, okay. Your arguement pretty much just lost all crediblity, but whatever.

 

[GuppyWN]

Because someone needs to inject a little ray of third party rational sunshine into the debate.

However, it is apparent you are solidly entrenched into your plot to rob the AAI guys of their rightful seniority, using the red herring pay raise excuse as justification.

The problem is, if you succeed you'll have at least 700 chapped ex-AAI pilots who will never forgive OR forget.

And there goes your "SWA culture" you like to brag about.

Just curious. If WN bought Virgin America how would that SLI go down if you were king for a day?

Gup

 

[Flycatcher99]

My career expectations were to upgrade at some point prior to the tricentennial. So no, expectations not met.

The feeling is mutual. The only difference is that I'm an 8-yr SWA FO, and you're a junior FO at the acquired "major".

 

[Fubijaakr]

Just curious. If WN bought Virgin America how would that SLI go down if you were king for a day?

Simple. Same way.

1. No bump/no flush
2. All pre-2008 SWA pilots on the list
3. Ratio the rest.

True, the VX guys would keep their Capt. seats unless they bid out of their base.

And the pay issue would be a non-starter.

 

[canyonblue]

Simple. Same way.

1. No bump/no flush
2. All pre-2008 SWA pilots on the list
3. Ratio the rest.

True, the VX guys would keep their Capt. seats unless they bid out of their base.

And the pay issue would be a non-starter.

Stick to flying planes, your arbitration skills are dismal. If you are married, it's easy to see you makes the calls in that marriage. Get off the computer, she's going to be home soon.:laugh: Unbelievable lack of reality, along with the lack for abstract thought. You have a GED?

 

[kwick]

Just curious. If WN bought Virgin America how would that SLI go down if you were king for a day?

Gup

DOH, With long-time fences to protect existing seat position and
domicile. Done!

 

[Fly4$]

No, definitely voting no. But I won't be suicidal if it passes, either, because the 10 year fence protects my QOL while I get the pay raise. Worst case scenario, this passes, I buy a sailboat and give away a week of flying every month while I spend time in the Caribbean. So yes, things could definitely be worse.

SWAPA: copy-paste, file under Arbitration ammo. Thanks a lot.

 

[greenpilot]

Nobody is "banned" from upgrading. The proposed seniority list and realistic expectations for upgrade afterwards rule. There are no extra provisions saying no upgrades for 10 years. It's just the list.

There are provisions that give all the upgrades to SWA FO's. We have FO's who are in the top 10% of our seniority list they will not be allowed to upgrade until after most of the SWA FO.

 

[redflyer65]

But you guys all go to AAI upgrade payrates immediately with this deal. What a slap in the face.

RF

 

[JT12345]

I can't wait to have SWAPA on my side.

 

[Fubijaakr]

But you guys all go to AAI upgrade payrates immediately with this deal. What a slap in the face.

Again, WHY do you care what they make? Does it reduce YOUR pay? Or are you just using that as an excuse to try to grab their seniority. The more you guys talk, the more you sound like USAPA slugs.

 

[redflyer65]

I don't care, but here is the dichotomy..

With the SW FO pay, they will be making the same if not more than if they would have upgraded and gone to the bottom of the AAI CA list. So when they argue that they are taking a seniority hit, they would have anyway to upgrade when they would have. This was not a merger of equals Fubi, quite a few major differences here, but most level headed people see that for what it is.

RF

 

[GuppyWN]

Fubi is either a Tranny, a former Tranny or just a WN hater.

Gup

 

[Fubijaakr]

This was not a merger of equals Fubi, quite a few major differences here, but most level headed people see that for what it is.

Actually, its IS a merger of equals. Your career expectation was to be a 737 CA. So was AAI's. That's all that really matters.

Career expectations historically ONLY refers to widebody vs. narrowbody upgrade potential.

Not when. Not at what pay. Wide vs. narrow...period.

You guys sold yourselves on the idea that because they are getting a pay raise, YOU should get preferential upgrades.

The only thing unequal in this SLI discussion is the origination date of Air Tran vs. SWA. Everything else is B.S.

Face it, YOU want to jump the line for a CA upgrade. YOU want to relegate the AAI F/Os to a decade of indentured servitude because for some unknown reason, you seem to think you are somehow superior because you were willing to buy a type rating to get hired at SWA.

Here's an uncomfortable factoid for you...it wasn't too long ago that SWA was just a glorified regional airline that paid like a regional. It was the place where you went when you couldn't get hired by a legacy.

All you had to do was buy a type rating and you're in like Flint.

Now just because you get paid a lot, doesn't mean you're any better or worse than any other 737 pilot. Don't forget, the 737 is the entry level jet in most of the third world.

So where does that leave you? An overpaid, third-world jet jockey who had to buy his type rating to get his seniority number.

I just can't figure out where the arrogance comes from.

Fubi is either a Tranny, a former Tranny or just a WN hater.

Sadly, you're wrong on both counts. I don't hate SWA. I'm just mystified how come all you SWA F/Os who post here grew such big egos. They probably go with your big watches.

I'll never forget my PA IP's response when I asked him how he liked being a SWA pilot. "Well," he said, "I fly 8 legs a day and never leave Texas."

That comment came to mind when I was talking to a SWA CA outside the hotel the other morning. He was going coast to coast, but it was going to take him 5 legs and all day to get there.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

[GuppyWN]

Career expectations historically ONLY refers to widebody vs. narrowbody upgrade potential.

Not when. Not at what pay. Wide vs. narrow...period.

So I should take a job at Atlas so my expectations would improve.

Got it.

Gup

 

[jonjuan]

So I should take a job at Atlas so my expectations would improve.

Got it.

Gup

An Arby has never heard of Atlas. Bloch (and every airline pax) has heard of lccs airtran and southwest.

It is.