SWAPA Info packet FEDEXed to all AirTran Pilots

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

Now refresh my memory, what did you bring that wasn't bought?

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

Dicko, surely you are smarter than that!

 

[dicko]

Now refresh my memory, what did you bring that wasn't bought?

Hehe ....

You're right. I am smarter than the tanker boys. I said "brought". Not "bought".

 

[asaflyer]

I'm glad that only the pissed off 5% of AT and SWA come to this site. Otherwise I might be nervous. BTW I thought the packet was very informative and I didn't read anything into it. Maybe I'm just too relaxed or too lazy to get all worked up over it. Also, since the merger has been annouced, I haven't ran into a single SW crew that wasn't very nice and talkative. Maybe if I walked around with a chip on my shoulder it would be different. Cheers.

 

[JT12345]

Sending the package on Saturday delivery hoping the spouses see it. Nice management move (Not SWA management btw). We learn by observation I guess.

Then I skim through it the amount of time it deserves and unfortunately learn today about the email nonsense at the end.

What a disappointment. I wonder what the arbitrator will think of these tactics? The only ones ruining the "culture" over there is SWAPA stirring the pot in their news letters with merger history, and how some Muse Air took it up the... and is happy to be there.

More disappointment every week from the SWA side. You are showing your hand with the fear tactics and violations of negotiating in good faith.

Wow.

 

[redflyer65]

I'm glad that only the pissed off 5% of AT and SWA come to this site. Otherwise I might be nervous. BTW I thought the packet was very informative and I didn't read anything into it. Maybe I'm just too relaxed or too lazy to get all worked up over it. Also, since the merger has been annouced, I haven't ran into a single SW crew that wasn't very nice and talkative. Maybe if I walked around with a chip on my shoulder it would be different. Cheers.

Well stated sir.

 

[Max Powers]

Kinda like turning back the hands of time and actually getting hired at Southwest instead of Airtran. I would say that getting hired at either airline on the same day(XX number of years ago), would lead to vastly different career expectations.

How would that not be addressed? It's at the heart of the issue.

In your brain perhaps. But in the brains of others they perhaps look at AAI being the riskier bet which paid off, if you were hired 7 years ago. More risk equals bigger reward or bigger loss - in this case it turned into reward.

 

[ivauir]

I'm glad that only the pissed off 5% of AT and SWA come to this site. Otherwise I might be nervous. BTW I thought the packet was very informative and I didn't read anything into it. Maybe I'm just too relaxed or too lazy to get all worked up over it. Also, since the merger has been annouced, I haven't ran into a single SW crew that wasn't very nice and talkative. Maybe if I walked around with a chip on my shoulder it would be different. Cheers.

Looking forward to working with you!

 

[Flycatcher99]

What is truly sad is that so many airline pilots have virtually no understanding whatsoever of what the key piece of legislation that governs their entire career says. And, even worse, you don't take the time to understand a document that was just negotiated a few months ago by your own union. Not understanding a piece of legislation that is three quarters of a century old is forgivable. Not taking the time to gain an understanding of the very documents to which your own union is a signatory? That's a different story.

Well, I've read it, and I understand it. The Process Agreement absolutely does not require merger of operations. Please see my explanation in another thread.

You keep quoting Section VI. That section, and every other one, only applies if the operations are merged under Bond/McCaskill. If GK were to choose not to merge operations, then there is no agreement that is "made and entered into in accordance with the provisions of the McCaskill-Bond Act" (first paragraph), and thus the entire PA is null and void, including Section VI.

A two-bit lawyer could shoot down any frivolous lawsuit brought forth under the grounds that you keep bringing up.

 

[Whataburger]

I think that whoever gets Casy Anthony's mom's defense attorney wins.

 

[scoreboardII]

ok, thats funny...

 

[madjack]

AAI pilots,

Boy you guys sure are spinning this well...I am a 10 year SWA FO and if all your CPs keep thier seats and obviously are senior to me and are getting the big raise under the SWA CBA what have I gotten out of this acquistion and why should I agree to it?? True as Ty Webb likes to say "I lose nothing" but I also gain nothing? Why should the AAI pilots get all the gains?? Doesn't seem like the AAI guys want to share their windfall with their new SWA brethren. The Fair and Equitable standard also protects the SWA pilots I believe?

 

[madjack]

MP,

AAI a riskier bet, for sure, but one could also argue it was harder (not saying that SWA pilots are any better aviators) to get on at SWA than AAI...don't the SWA pilots deserve to share in the "spoils" of this acquisition or do only the AAI pilots gain??

 

[redflyer65]

In your brain perhaps. But in the brains of others they perhaps look at AAI being the riskier bet which paid off, if you were hired 7 years ago. More risk equals bigger reward or bigger loss - in this case it turned into reward.

What? That's the most bizzare arguement...so now you are actually admiting a windfall by the Airtran pilots...you took more risk (or possibly couldn't or didn't get hired at SW-not you personally MP), and now you deserved to be rewarded handsomely with the SWAPA contract that you had nothing to do with? Ahhhh, okay.

RF

 

[Lear70]

AAI pilots,

Boy you guys sure are spinning this well...I am a 10 year SWA FO and if all your CPs keep thier seats and obviously are senior to me and are getting the big raise under the SWA CBA what have I gotten out of this acquistion and why should I agree to it??

"Obviously" senior to you? That's not the only scenario. What happens if an agreement/award comes out that is close to Date of Hire but fenced the operation for 3-5 years while Southwest grows?

The CA's keep their seats, but when the fences come down, everyone is in their proper place on the MASTER seniority list for the remaining 15-20 years of your career, everyone in that seniority range has a CA seat, and we truck merrily down the road where no one is "upside down" in seniority.

Just a thought.

As far as why should you agree to it? Simple. You rolls the dice you takes your chances. If it's not an absolute windfall list for our side and is fairly close to where negotiations were at when they sent it to the panel, my bet would be that GK asks you to live with it for the good of the other 30,000 SWA employees and the shareholders.

Pushing your CEO to lose hundreds of millions of dollars pulling the "nuclear option" ripcord if it totally screws the majority of your pilots for years to come is one thing (and he very well might). Asking him to do the same thing for something that's close to what the negotiators were pushing for might be something else altogether.

 

[madjack]

Lear,

Let's agree to stay on topic, the AAI pilots will receive IMMEDIATE gains as per the SWA CBA. In your DOH/Fence scenario I on the other hand gain nothing...in fact I must wait until the fence protections go away to achieve the benefits of seniority my longevity allows???? I gain nothing while the AAI pilots gain a great deal... the AAI pilots, in good faith, should want share the gains and risk of this aquisition...

I have never advocated a staple and you and I both agree that the we have no idea what Mr Kelly or a panel of arbitrators will do...

 

[doh]

To start with, you probably need to realize that you're not actually having negotiations. It's probably easier to see from the outside looking in, but you better realize things pretty quickly.

To start with, you are an utter tool. Crawl back under your bridge troll.

 

[madjack]

Lear,

The "roll the dice, takes ur chances" comment is construed as "give us what we want or an arbitrator will take it...more subtle but still just as much a threat as the nuclear option...I think the arbitrators will ask the same questions I am asking...

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

AAI pilots,

Boy you guys sure are spinning this well...I am a 10 year SWA FO and if all your CPs keep thier seats and obviously are senior to me and are getting the big raise under the SWA CBA what have I gotten out of this acquistion and why should I agree to it?? True as Ty Webb likes to say "I lose nothing" but I also gain nothing? Why should the AAI pilots get all the gains?? Doesn't seem like the AAI guys want to share their windfall with their new SWA brethren. The Fair and Equitable standard also protects the SWA pilots I believe?

Actually my friend you will lose something. Given the demographic differances between the groups your relative seniority will deminished for the rest of your career as you are put behind a younger AAI pilot group.

 

[Slug]

Plus, growth at a bigger company requires more airplanes to see the same relative gains in seniority. Growth from this acquisition is not guaranteed. I don't see it happening at all. GK is so caught up in his 15% ROIC before growth that I don't believe that we see any growth until he leaves or that metric is dispelled.