SWAPA Info packet FEDEXed to all AirTran Pilots

[Just thinking]

....OK, if it is then OK to pay protect a SWA FO, it sure as heck is OK to pay protect an AI captain soon to be SWA FO. And probably cheaper.....

Not a correct statement due to the training costs associated with the displacements as well as the new training for the new Captains on the 717. Two months of training and a month of IOE to get out on the line. (Two year seat lock comes with that upgrade.) AT Captains displaced from the 717 could bid to the 737 FO seat because it is their right since they have been displaced. Two months to train and one month IOE. If everything works out hunky dory you could probably cut the training to two months total dependent upon the training department schedule. 717 training is still being conducted in ATL at the Alteon center so increased cost for per diem and hotel rooms for the entire time.
Now as the 717 displaced Captains now bid the 737 FO seat they will probably displace an AT 737 FO who will now have to go to training for the 717 FO seat. A couple of more months for this evolution.
I believe it would be quicker and cheaper to pay protect the SWA FO's as Captains until the growth opportunity comes.

 

[redflyer65]

Your thinking too much like a legacy carrier.

1- I really don't see any 717 to 737 crosstraining. There will be long fences on the 717 for whoever is on it. The company will do it if the arbitor/negotiation doesn't.

2- Any junior AAI captain getting bumped to senior FO would have a mininum training. So there really isn't much cost in any of that.

 

[madjack]

Who care what it costs, the CEO got us into this thing he will have to stroke some checks to make it work, and the only way to do that is to make it FAIR and EQUITABLE ...AAI PILOTS CAN NOT GET ALL THE GAINS IN THIS ACQUISITION.

 

[Fly4$]

303 posts in 4 days, we must be getting close to a solution.

 

[redflyer65]

Tomorrow.

 

[Music]

Tomorrow.

Unlikely.

 

[carl p]

We realize that both groups should reap the benefits of this acquisition. The gains from our side are obvious, so the question remains how can you guys benefit and where do those benefits come from (us or SWA)?

The retirement issue is very important and must be addressed. The list should be created to compensate for this and any other legitimate issues. IMO, the "gains" should come from management and not the other pilot group. Somehow I think pay protections will be involved. I trust the MC to work something out if it's possible to do so.

BTW, I was not offended by the packet but I get how some of our pilots are leary given past AAI history. Let's just get this done and get down to the biz of kicking some ^$$!

 

[ASADFW7]

I personally look at the how people communicate on flightinto like the idiots who fall in love with a computer screen during online dating. It is easy to say and be anything at the keyboard. The reality is when you interact with people face to face it is much harder to communicate with as much utter bs. When AAI and SWA crews see each other in terminals and overnights, none of this flightinfo style bs is thrown around. We are civil to each other. As for how this will play out, this week is our best bet to get something done. The reality may not be what anyone likes at all, there are not as many tens out there was advertised. I have seen a few of you in the terminal, with the beer packs, and happy meals, it ain't pretty.

 

[GoodTimes]

So the AAI peeps are talking pay protection for the SWA side? And at the same time you're saying that contracts, pay and benefits are temporary? "Pay protect the SWA side and don't take our seniority because thats the only thing that's permanent."

A big 'ol WTF from me!!!

 

[jonjuan]

Who care what it costs, the CEO got us into this thing he will have to stroke some checks to make it work, and the only way to do that is to make it FAIR and EQUITABLE ...AAI PILOTS CAN NOT GET ALL THE GAINS IN THIS ACQUISITION.

Make sure you send him a letter in all caps. That will get your point across. By the way, "he" doesn't "have to" do anything.

 

[PCL_128]

Once again PCL, you can't have it both ways, our contract and our seats.

Your hiding behind the "you won't be harmed" mantra when in fact harm is done by lost pay until upgrade.

There is no reason why your upgrades need to be delayed. There are ways to implement a fair list that won't delay SWA upgrades at all.

 

[SWA/FO]

Quit, already!!!!

 

[Just thinking]

" ......1- I really don't see any 717 to 737 crosstraining. There will be long fences on the 717 for whoever is on it. The company will do it if the arbitor/negotiation doesn't......"

I was addressing the issue that keeps getting brought up about junior AT Captains keeping their seat while the SWA FO's contend that those seats should be theirs....

If the ISL results in a SWA FO being SENIOR to an AT Captain---- that SWA FO is pay protected until first opportunity to upgrade (any base.)

"2- Any junior AAI captain getting bumped to senior FO would have a mininum training. So there really isn't much cost in any of that"............

Any displaced pilot chooses which aircraft they want to go to. Part of the nuances of having more than one type of aircraft on a certificate. That can cause a trickle down that will go all the way to the bottom of the ISL because it is based on seniority. Work the ISL and pay protect those that are SENIOR. I would caution about negotiating "other" rates for the 717 because it will "HARM" current SWAPA members once the ISL is determined. If you make a different pay rate then there will be a shuffle to get a seat that pays the most.

 

[scoreboardII]

IMO, the "gains" should come from management and not the other pilot group. !

And this is an example of the classic legacy pilot "choke the goose" mindset which has failed at every major to date.

If your MC/NC goes to Gary Kelly thinking this they will be shown the door.

 

[madjack]

Make sure you send him a letter in all caps. That will get your point across. By the way, "he" doesn't "have to" do anything.

You are correct, he does not have to do anything and for your benefit: THE AAI PILOTS CAN NOT GET ALL THE GAINS FROM THIS ACQUISITION!!

 

[27 driver]

deleted, I was late to the party

 

[carl p]

And this is an example of the classic legacy pilot "choke the goose" mindset which has failed at every major to date.

If your MC/NC goes to Gary Kelly thinking this they will be shown the door.

I was simply referring to the common theme that SWA will grease the skids to make this go down smoother. I'm not saying which side needs greasing of what it should be...way above my pay grade. I'm very confident our MC would never propose anything that would harm or be seen as greedy to SWA management.

 

[scoreboardII]

Ok, my bad.

 

[carl p]

All good, no worries!

 

[Daddy]

So....NO ONE here has the proposal? Come on, spill it already!