SWAPA/ATN: Why no JCBA?

[Luv2BFlyin]

I agree. I'm on my way right now.

Not to dig on you but you said you want fair. You must have SOME idea of what that is.

Gup

Gup, you seem fairly reasonable. As a captain at the 28th % on the "tranny" list, where do you think I shoud fit in on the combined list?

 

[GuppyWN]

Gup, you seem fairly reasonable. As a captain at the 28th % on the "tranny" list, where do you think I shoud fit in on the combined list?

Opinions are like ****************************************. What's good or fair for me might really suck for our Johnson. Our guys are well prepared and I trust their judgement. Plus our pilots have a safety valve - a vote if we get that far.

Now ask me if I think this will get done without Arbitration. I say yes.

Gup

 

[mt2]

Did I say that? No, I didn't. You are grasping at straws and, again, only riling people up. You spread our contract cost increase out over several YEARS and it becomes a fraction of net yearly earnings, EASILY sustainable.

We're not ATA or Midwest, and no one considers this the same type of deal except for you and the 2%'ers.

Lear -- similar situation my friend. ATA was in a good financial position and Aviation Week's Airline of the Year prior to signing the new contact with ATA ALPA. A contract ATA obviously (hindsight is 20/20) could not afford despite ALPA's assurances. Congrats on the new TA, but be careful, you may not be in as good position as you assume.

 

[Ty Webb]

Lear -- similar situation my friend. ATA was in a good financial position and Aviation Week's Airline of the Year prior to signing the new contact with ATA ALPA.

A contract ATA obviously (hindsight is 20/20) could not afford despite ALPA's assurances. Congrats on the new TA, but be careful, you may not be in as good position as you assume.

[/quote]

Not to worry. What we got won't even put a dent in their bonuses. This meager raise will probably raise our CASM by less than one percent.

Let me put it this way-

A 737 costs approx $5,000. to operate, total. Pilot cost was about $280. of that. Now it will be about $320. out of $5,000. We're not breaking the bank.

TW

 

[Lear70]

AT pilots would take a staple to the bottom of the SWA list with pay protections for two years. Either that or they work under their crappy new TA.

If I were negotiating the SLI for SWA, that's what I'd offer, or walk away. They will accept it.

Or we could be adults and discuss it.

Gup

:lol:

Nice to see everyone's pretty much recognized that good ole Bobby D is just here to spread some flame on the discussion and that his "solution" is worthless.

Carry on...

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

No I am for a fair integration. You are the ones wanting a staple job. You act like all of us have applied to SWA. I bet it is less than 5%. And many that did applied to every airline out there at one point or another. People job hunting put in resumes everywhere. Once they find a job that stops. If that argument makes you feel better so be it. Yes I am OK with putting some of our guys above some of your guys. You think a 3 year SWA guy should be above a 15 year AAI guy. You guys claim that culture is so important but it only for SWAPA and not anyone else. Yet you call me a hypocrite.

We have close to 100 former aai pilots on our list now. That there is more than 5%.

 

[ivauir]

If you don't mind me asking who is our lawyer that you speak of. Do you mean ALPA or the guy we retained for the merger.

Dan "crybaby" Catz.

His history combined with some of the attitudes I'm hearing here is troubling.

You can't expect SWAPA to go for the throat and ALPA to roll over. It just doesn't work that way.

Who is going for the throat?

What I do expect is some recognition of the differing career expectations at the two carriers.

Honestly I believe cooler heads will prevail.

I hope you are right, but all I am hearing is a bunch of guys who expect a 50% pay raise and a 20 year increase in longevity.

This deal could work out VERY well for AAI pilots, but "fair and equitable" is a two way street. The mindset that certain trannies are displaying here ignores that. Mix that attitude with a lawyer like Catz and I see the potential for disaster.

 

[Ty Webb]

"Fair and equitable" is a two way street. The mindset that certain SWA folks are displaying here ignores that. Mix that attitude with a lawyer like Catz and I see the potential for disaster.

This is too funny. I changed one little word, and now it applies equally well to yourself and your buddies PapaLimpy, RedDog and Roughneck.

 

[PapaWoody]

This is too funny. I changed one little word, and now it applies equally well to yourself and your buddies PapaLimpy, RedDog and Roughneck.

I'm impressed, Ty. Name calling is always an effective technique to bolster arguments and inject credibility into them. No worries, though, because anyone who has been on these threads for any length of time has already discounted anything you write as completely biased and out of touch with reality; probably fueled by anger and fear over how this will probably go. Which is pretty stupid, considering it will probably be the best thing that has ever happened to your mediocre career. You're glass half-empty approach to life is refreshing. Let me know how that works out for ya.

Sincerely,
PW

 

[27 driver]

Taken from the please buy airtran thread. You seem to be consistent in wanting a fair solution. Glad you would not mind being on the bottom of our list. I would like to run the numbers to the question you asked in the last sentence.

I am on the bottom her so I would expect to be on the bottom there. Not everyone here is on the bottom. Not sure what you are implying.

 

[27 driver]

Opinions are like ****************************************. What's good or fair for me might really suck for our Johnson. Our guys are well prepared and I trust their judgement. Plus our pilots have a safety valve - a vote if we get that far.

Now ask me if I think this will get done without Arbitration. I say yes.

Gup

I will bet you a beer it won't get done without arbitration.

 

[27 driver]

We have close to 100 former aai pilots on our list now. That there is more than 5%.

SWA has about 5800 pilots. 5% would be approx 290. If your numbers are correct then your math is flawed.

 

[roughneck]

85 pilots would be 5% of 1700. I believe he is saying that more than 5% of your pilot group has left to come over to SWA. I heard about 1 in 5 AirTran guys that have interviewed at SWA got the nod. Thats a ton of guys willing to go to the bottom of our list in order to leave AirTran. That is what Jose was talking about.

Do you think your MEC and Merger team have interviewed? You will be shocked if you ask and they are honest with their response.

 

[ASADFW7]

If there are 20 variables for an arbitrator to consider, the holy grail is not whether Airtran pilots have interviewed at SWA previously, maybe they interviewed at Delta or AA, or F9, that is a small point. There are bigger fish to consider. Small fish make those who hold them up and say look, look at my small fish, well they make you look like a person who is happy with small fish. Think big fish, and stop talking about small fish.

The bigger fish in this is concentrating on what we have not what we may lose.

 

[SWA/FO]

We're not breaking the bank.

Sure, your just adding to the 1,000,000,000 dollar debt, Southwest is taking with the Tranny Acquisition.

 

[ATLplt]

Acquisition.

Semantics my friend...call it whatever makes you sleep well at night.

 

[ivauir]

This is too funny. I changed one little word, and now it applies equally well to yourself and your buddies PapaLimpy, RedDog and Roughneck.

Ty,

It isn't funny at all. What you have done is simply juvenile. I don't appreciate being intentionally misquoted and I was very careful not to specifically name anyone. You on the other hand have to make the argument personal. Ironically you are probably the worst offender when it comes to posting extreme and outrageous positions.

This is a classless move on your part, and you've really managed to get under my skin. Your attitude is scary and I really hope you are an outlier and that your representatives are far more reasonable.

I have made every effort to enthusiastically welcome your pilot group. You are making that impossible.

 

[shagadelic]

Ivauir, I'm beginning to agree with you. This is starting to look ugly. Gary, I hope you're watching! Surely we can start looking at our options...

 

[carl p]

Everyone needs to take a deep breath, life's too short. I appreciate those who are welcoming to the AT pilot group. Each MC must represent their pilots to the best of their ability, after that we need to shake hands and treat each other with respect.

As far as Katz E vs. W history, it was explained to us that he was following directions with regard to his SLI argument. His clients minds were made up, and he argued their position. Not much you can do if the people your working for want to fight for a position that doesn't have the best chance for success. Ironically, he represents the younger group this time. I do not believe the AT MC has decided there is only 1 fair outcome in this SLI debate. I am confident they will be open minded, fair, and represent the AT pilots well.

 

[S3sundowner]

deleted

 

[ivauir]

I am confident they will be open minded, fair, and represent the AT pilots well.

I hope you are right. SWA was built on "win/win", maybe there is hope.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

So can we base our opinions of all SWA guys based on a couple of the ******************** stirrers that post on this board? You are complaining about one guy and all of a sudden we are all unreasonable and selfish? Maybe you need to step away from the computer if the stuff posted on an anonymous web board is getting under your skin.

 

[S3sundowner]

My buddy's a 5th year FO at swa. Will make close to 200k this year averaging 14 days per month off. He says other guys his seniority make way more than him. I'd like to see what the top AT captain will make this year. Oh and that doesn't include profit share or 401k match (close to 20k). You guys are getting a smoking deal and you know it.

 

[shootr]

S3's buddy is not lying. Without giving you my W-2 numbers, I can say his estimate of earnings for a 5th year FO is very realistic. I will make a bit less less as a 6 year FO but I average 16 days off per month.

 

[Dan Roman]

I guess we need a side letter is ours then that states we STAPLE all aquired pilots. Works for me. Wake up and stop dreaming. The trannies and their I want everything attitudes will ruin SWA.

This is the attitude I'm talking about Vixen....you simply can not put this out and then later say , hey let's pull together as one! Doesn't work that way dude.

 

[canyonblue]

11-21-2010, 12:33

Wow, I didn't know that the time change between Hawaii and the mainland was 3 1/2 years.

 

[vixin]

Dan your an idiot. Even a simpleton can realize the context of that post was in regards to a just as ridiculous statement made by a Tranny.