SWAPA/ATN: Why no JCBA?

[Dude]

Everyone mentions seniority as the "long pole in the tent". Fair enough. What does seniority buy you? Vacation, days off, certain days of flying, types of trips and the left seat. Those are the biggies.

With our flexibility and scheduling rules we can virtually build our own schedule, even as a very junior pilot. Obviously some months this is easier than others, but moving flying around to accommodate your schedule is not just possible but very likely.

Vacation and the left seat are what they are, but QOL is HUGE as a junior pilot at SWA. In my short time here my QOL is not much different than a 20+ year guy - seriously. The gap between seniority groups is very small. The luv is spread around to everyone, not just the senior. Since our trips are highly productive, you don't have to be senior to be productive. So again, the gap is very narrow. Left seat and vacation time are the only things that being junior won't get you.

How long do you have to work at other carriers to get flying you want and 17ish days off/month?

Thought I would share.

 

[Lear70]

AirTran can't afford the payrates they agreed to.

Ummm... really...? Flamebait at its finest...

Like Ty said: 10Q, among other things. ALPA fully vetted our ORIGINAL proposal and presented it PERSONALLY to AirTran's CEO and CFO. If THEY didn't complain about THAT, then you can imagine them settling well BELOW that proposal is well within the budget.

FYI, The total cost of the T.A. over the ENTIRE duration is less than what AirTran will post in Net Profit THIS YEAR ALONE.

Interesting that they didn't agree to them until after the public announcement that SWA was buying you. That is why the big raises don't kick in until well after the expected close date. If the acquisition doesn't go through, I bet you $5 that you will be giving the raises back, giving concessions on what you have today and furloughing AGAIN in 12 months. Care to wager?

Sure. Not going to matter, as the deal isn't going away, but I'll take that bet.

Again, it's statements like this that only serve to divide the two pilot groups. Why are you stirring the pot?

 

[roughneck]

Left seat and vacation time are the only things that being junior won't get you.

Our right seat guys make more than AT left seat guys. They will get their vacation because Gary has said he will honor their longevity for pay and benefits. They win all the way around no matter where they fall on the list.

 

[Dude]

good point

 

[canyonblue]

SWA has a great track record, but AMR, UAL, DAL and NWA have all been around twice as long, and I'm sure sure at some point in their histories, their pilots could puff their chests up with pride and make the same statement you just did. Hell, throw in Pan Am and TWA too. They each had 40 years to point to, and they were operating worldwide.

I wouldn't bet a dime on any company track record before deregulation, easy money there.

Q. Do you want to know which college football team has the most National Championships? Alabama? Michigan? Oklahoma? Ohio State?

A. Princeton

Of course 20 of them occurred before 1900. I prefer to use contemporary examples when proving my position.

 

[texman]

Everyone mentions seniority as the "long pole in the tent". Fair enough. What does seniority buy you? Vacation, days off, certain days of flying, types of trips and the left seat. Those are the biggies.

With our flexibility and scheduling rules we can virtually build our own schedule, even as a very junior pilot. Obviously some months this is easier than others, but moving flying around to accommodate your schedule is not just possible but very likely.

Vacation and the left seat are what they are, but QOL is HUGE as a junior pilot at SWA. In my short time here my QOL is not much different than a 20+ year guy - seriously. The gap between seniority groups is very small. The luv is spread around to everyone, not just the senior. Since our trips are highly productive, you don't have to be senior to be productive. So again, the gap is very narrow. Left seat and vacation time are the only things that being junior won't get you.

How long do you have to work at other carriers to get flying you want and 17ish days off/month?

Thought I would share.

This is a good point. It is true guys. I am very Jr. I have used Elitt to get 18 days off and still pay 96 tfps X at 101.99 a trip. AT guys and gals you will be amazed on the flexibility you have even being Jr. Not trying to do a sells job but it is true. Let the good life start.

 

[Max Powers]

I will add that we are doing it with petty cash and left over stock from the bottom drawer. No SWA shareholder vote required.

Save money???? Its a stock swap for 700 million, that means no money there. The rest is 600 million which you will get back in full when you get the savings account we have.

Besides you guys have barely been making a profit these past few years. margins are around 5-6 percent. Not that great.

 

[funnyman12]

Im a relatively junior AT fo......3 1/2 years so far. I have off from this Saturday till next Sunday....8 days over the Thanksgiving holiday. Not bad with some schedule adjusting. I had off last Thanksgiving, Christmas eve, 4th of July, and New Years eve. I also have only worked a handful of weekends this year. There are tricks here that can enable a junior guy to work the system. I also average 17 days off....granted only 80 hrs of credit.

 

[roughneck]

Besides you guys have barely been making a profit these past few years.

We make more in a quarter than you do in a full year, we pay cash for our airplanes, we have the best debt to income ratio in the industry and we have the only investment grade rating in our industry. We have been profitable for nearly 40 years and have not furloughed. Ever!

Come on goofy, wake up you have your head gear on.

 

[Dan Roman]

Geez, I'm waiting for some of you guys to started comparing who has the biggest watches and how it should be a factor in merging lists.

 

[Ty Webb]

We make more in a quarter than you do in a full year, we pay cash for our airplanes, we have the best debt to income ratio in the industry and we have the only investment grade rating in our industry. We have been profitable for nearly 40 years and have not furloughed. Ever!

Come on goofy, wake up you have your head gear on.

If everything's so great, why are you so angry? :laugh:

 

[Lear70]

Because everyone keeps poking each other in the eye with the proverbial stick...

:angryfire:

 

[PCL_128]

FYI, The total cost of the T.A. over the ENTIRE duration is less than what AirTran will post in Net Profit THIS YEAR ALONE.

I think you got your numbers wrong. That's not true at all. But neither is roughneck's absurd statement, of course.

 

[ivauir]

I think you got your numbers wrong. That's not true at all. But neither is roughneck's absurd statement, of course.

There are many absurd statements being tossed around.

Let's talk FACTS:
- We just maxed out a profitability based raise.
- Your operation could not support our wages.
- There is money to be made here, or there wouldn't be a deal.

It is the Southwest way for pilots to share success. You guys need to get over here so you can be part of that. It's gonna be GREAT!

 

[PCL_128]

Agreed!