SWAPA/ATN: Why no JCBA?

[Bob Dylan]

I agree. I'm on my way right now.

Not to dig on you but you said you want fair. You must have SOME idea of what that is.

Gup

AT pilots would take a staple to the bottom of the SWA list with pay protections for two years. Either that or they work under their crappy new TA.

If I were negotiating the SLI for SWA, that's what I'd offer, or walk away. They will accept it.

 

[GuppyWN]

Or we could be adults and discuss it.

Gup

 

[Uppercrust]

AT pilots would take a staple to the bottom of the SWA list with pay protections for two years. Either that or they work under their crappy new TA.

If I were negotiating the SLI for SWA, that's what I'd offer, or walk away. They will accept it.

I'd make em interview.

 

[27 driver]

I agree. I'm on my way right now.

Not to dig on you but you said you want fair. You must have SOME idea of what that is.

Gup

You are right GUP but I bet it differs from what you think is fair. I am junior here at AAI and I will be junior at LUV. Our unions have asked us not to discuss our opinions online so I will refrain. Needless to say my opinion will not matter much in the over all scheme of things much like everyone here on FI.

Double shot with a beer back.

Only now we have to split the tab. Getting expensive

 

[SWA/FO]

Only now we have to split the tab. Getting expensive

Not with your pending SWA Pay. You'll be fine.

 

[RedDogC130]

No I am for a fair integration. You are the ones wanting a staple job. You act like all of us have applied to SWA. I bet it is less than 5%. And many that did applied to every airline out there at one point or another. People job hunting put in resumes everywhere. Once they find a job that stops.

The number I thought I read was 482 former airtran at SWA. So out of let's say 5900, 482 would equals....roughly 8%....that were hired and took the job....not counting those who did not take it....or those who did not get hired at all. I think you may be a bit off on your percentages...I'm just sayin

 

[RedDogC130]

From this junior AAI FO, I would gladly take some kind of fair integration with a no furlough clause. I am on the bottom here. I would much rather be on the bottom there. I would come to work happy and with a smile every time.

Most guys and gals here at AAI have been hired post 9/11. What percentage of your group have been hired since then?

Taken from the please buy airtran thread. You seem to be consistent in wanting a fair solution. Glad you would not mind being on the bottom of our list. I would like to run the numbers to the question you asked in the last sentence.

 

[luv2fly]

Most guys and gals here at AAI have been hired post 9/11. What percentage of your group have been hired since then?

The percentage is lower, but the total number of pilots hired at SWA since September 11th is greater than your entire seniority list.

 

[PCL_128]

I was told $140 Million increase over the term of the CBA. If that's incorrect, it came from the NC.

Isn't AirTran projected to net over $160 Million this year?

The $140 million number is low. Remember, it's over $50 million in just the first year, and it's a five year deal. Also, AirTran won't make nearly $160 million this year in net profit. With that said, it's ridiculous to think that AirTran can't afford this contract without the SWA deal. They could afford far more.

Your lack of general accounting is embarrassing. Your current raises increase AT costs enough to wipe out your best year's (2009) net profit. That increase in cost is per year. Call your union, or better yet just call your VC, or just call PCL.

You don't want him to call me. I won't tell him what you're saying, thats for sure. You need to check your facts.

 

[GuppyWN]

The number I thought I read was 482 former airtran at SWA. So out of let's say 5900, 482 would equals....roughly 8%....that were hired and took the job....not counting those who did not take it....or those who did not get hired at all. I think you may be a bit off on your percentages...I'm just sayin

He said APPLIED, not hired. I can assure you his number is off by roughly 30% - or more.

Gup

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I agree. I'm on my way right now.

Not to dig on you but you said you want fair. You must have SOME idea of what that is.

Gup

Gup, you seem fairly reasonable. As a captain at the 28th % on the "tranny" list, where do you think I shoud fit in on the combined list?

 

[GuppyWN]

Gup, you seem fairly reasonable. As a captain at the 28th % on the "tranny" list, where do you think I shoud fit in on the combined list?

Opinions are like ****************************************. What's good or fair for me might really suck for our Johnson. Our guys are well prepared and I trust their judgement. Plus our pilots have a safety valve - a vote if we get that far.

Now ask me if I think this will get done without Arbitration. I say yes.

Gup

 

[mt2]

Did I say that? No, I didn't. You are grasping at straws and, again, only riling people up. You spread our contract cost increase out over several YEARS and it becomes a fraction of net yearly earnings, EASILY sustainable.

We're not ATA or Midwest, and no one considers this the same type of deal except for you and the 2%'ers.

Lear -- similar situation my friend. ATA was in a good financial position and Aviation Week's Airline of the Year prior to signing the new contact with ATA ALPA. A contract ATA obviously (hindsight is 20/20) could not afford despite ALPA's assurances. Congrats on the new TA, but be careful, you may not be in as good position as you assume.

 

[Ty Webb]

Lear -- similar situation my friend. ATA was in a good financial position and Aviation Week's Airline of the Year prior to signing the new contact with ATA ALPA.

A contract ATA obviously (hindsight is 20/20) could not afford despite ALPA's assurances. Congrats on the new TA, but be careful, you may not be in as good position as you assume.

[/quote]

Not to worry. What we got won't even put a dent in their bonuses. This meager raise will probably raise our CASM by less than one percent.

Let me put it this way-

A 737 costs approx $5,000. to operate, total. Pilot cost was about $280. of that. Now it will be about $320. out of $5,000. We're not breaking the bank.

TW

 

[Lear70]

AT pilots would take a staple to the bottom of the SWA list with pay protections for two years. Either that or they work under their crappy new TA.

If I were negotiating the SLI for SWA, that's what I'd offer, or walk away. They will accept it.

Or we could be adults and discuss it.

Gup

:lol:

Nice to see everyone's pretty much recognized that good ole Bobby D is just here to spread some flame on the discussion and that his "solution" is worthless.

Carry on...

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

No I am for a fair integration. You are the ones wanting a staple job. You act like all of us have applied to SWA. I bet it is less than 5%. And many that did applied to every airline out there at one point or another. People job hunting put in resumes everywhere. Once they find a job that stops. If that argument makes you feel better so be it. Yes I am OK with putting some of our guys above some of your guys. You think a 3 year SWA guy should be above a 15 year AAI guy. You guys claim that culture is so important but it only for SWAPA and not anyone else. Yet you call me a hypocrite.

We have close to 100 former aai pilots on our list now. That there is more than 5%.

 

[ivauir]

If you don't mind me asking who is our lawyer that you speak of. Do you mean ALPA or the guy we retained for the merger.

Dan "crybaby" Catz.

His history combined with some of the attitudes I'm hearing here is troubling.

You can't expect SWAPA to go for the throat and ALPA to roll over. It just doesn't work that way.

Who is going for the throat?

What I do expect is some recognition of the differing career expectations at the two carriers.

Honestly I believe cooler heads will prevail.

I hope you are right, but all I am hearing is a bunch of guys who expect a 50% pay raise and a 20 year increase in longevity.

This deal could work out VERY well for AAI pilots, but "fair and equitable" is a two way street. The mindset that certain trannies are displaying here ignores that. Mix that attitude with a lawyer like Catz and I see the potential for disaster.

 

[Ty Webb]

"Fair and equitable" is a two way street. The mindset that certain SWA folks are displaying here ignores that. Mix that attitude with a lawyer like Catz and I see the potential for disaster.

This is too funny. I changed one little word, and now it applies equally well to yourself and your buddies PapaLimpy, RedDog and Roughneck.

 

[PapaWoody]

This is too funny. I changed one little word, and now it applies equally well to yourself and your buddies PapaLimpy, RedDog and Roughneck.

I'm impressed, Ty. Name calling is always an effective technique to bolster arguments and inject credibility into them. No worries, though, because anyone who has been on these threads for any length of time has already discounted anything you write as completely biased and out of touch with reality; probably fueled by anger and fear over how this will probably go. Which is pretty stupid, considering it will probably be the best thing that has ever happened to your mediocre career. You're glass half-empty approach to life is refreshing. Let me know how that works out for ya.

Sincerely,
PW

 

[27 driver]

Taken from the please buy airtran thread. You seem to be consistent in wanting a fair solution. Glad you would not mind being on the bottom of our list. I would like to run the numbers to the question you asked in the last sentence.

I am on the bottom her so I would expect to be on the bottom there. Not everyone here is on the bottom. Not sure what you are implying.