SWAPA/ATN: Why no JCBA?

[FlyinGuy]

Negotiations are between the MC's. Both unions have asked their pilots to refrain from discussing SLI issues.

And you my friend are the biggest mouthpiece going against what your union has asked you to do.

 

[RedDogC130]

And the fact the Airtran MEC was in Dallas this past week or the prior one and SWAPA is getting a meet and greet going in ATL for the Airtran guys/gals....please enjoy the free beer and food SWAPA and the pilots of SWA provide. It should be a good time.

 

[Kharma Police]

And the fact the Airtran MEC was in Dallas this past week or the prior one and SWAPA is getting a meet and greet going in ATL for the Airtran guys/gals....please enjoy the free beer and food SWAPA and the pilots of SWA provide. It should be a good time.

Aren't you guys invited too?

 

[redflyer65]

RedDog et al-

Out TA vote closes today at 10 a.m. EST. The rates for FO's will become effective Dec 1, so any comparisons made using wages from our 2001 Contract are just a waste of time.

Hahaha..

Now that's funny. Talk about uninformed. (Hint..it's called a snapshot)

 

[27 driver]

You can say that again. AirTran captains are basically willing to destroy a great company all for their greed!

I think that GK is. He never asked Airtran captains before he made his offer.

 

[redflyer65]

Windfall, lets talk about what you guys get. how about no growth for over the next two years currently planned, lets talk about 50-75 more 737s coming, INTL cities that you don't fly to, your reservation system that is a wreck, DCA slots, LGA slots, did I mention ATL, rafts on 737, raft trained crews, XM Radio (entertainment), WiFi on every plane, oh and Gary Kelly and SWA noted ATL may become largest city..=? Windfall again?

QUOTE]

Really? That has nothing to do with this pilot group. Everything you mention is COMPANY oriented. You can't combine the two, but nice try.

Yes...Airtran pilot windfall. 50-80% pay increase for starters. FOR STARTERS. Dude it's not even close.

This isn't a DL/NW difference of 10-20% and all the AAI guys on here who don't admit that honestly are just fooling themselves.

 

[27 driver]

I would say that is a correct statement. I always assumed Southwest is buying AirTran for one reason, and one reason only, to kill them off. It's not about wanting anything that is AirTran, including the employees. If it weren't for the government legislation, I couldn't say we would hire a single one, our culture is too important to be gambled with. Sure the topping on the cake is instant growth in ATL, and we got it cheap. I have heard there will be a probationary period, just like with Morris. This should weed out any undesirables, and at SWA, they will be easy to spot. It's just the Southwest way.

Ya great culture, put almost 10,000 people out of work would be the way you want it. Super nice guy you are. How did you slip through the interview process.

 

[luv2fly]

Ya great culture, put almost 10,000 people out of work would be the way you want it. Super nice guy you are. How did you slip through the interview process.

But you are ok with putting your guys, some tried but failed to get hired at SWA, above our guys?

Hypocritical, don't you think!

 

[27 driver]

I just know how hard we have all worked to build what we have at SWA. We are willing and able to extend that to your pilot group but A little respect for the gift you are being given is expected. I'm not angry but I do expect you not to look a gift horse in the mouth. Welcome aboard.

That is exactly it. SWA is buying us...not SWAPA. IF SWAPA pooled their money and purchased Airtran it would be different. SWAPA brings a seniority list just as Airtran does. You seem to confuse the two. The share holders own the rest. The planes, the routes, the growth etc. The pilot group is not the gift horse.

 

[27 driver]

Sorry, Ty, but for the sake of these arguments (i.e. SWA vs. AAI vis a vis the integration), your current rates, not your TA rates, are the ones in play. Because those are the rates that the arbitrator will be using to make his/her comparisons. Why, you ask? Because SWAPA can (and will) make a very valid case that a) those came after the CND and b) you got those rates as a direct result of the SWA acquisition. As part of those arguments, I'm sure they will include that GK himself probably had to sign off on the deal, since I doubt if AAI could make substantive changes to their costs without it. So it will be the snapshot taken on Sep 27th that will constitute the comparison of contracts.


Fraternally,
PapaWoody

So you are saying we would have never got another raise if SWA didn't make this deal. Secondly GK can't legally have anything to do with Airtran until after the DOCC. So you are saying he violated the law. I bet the DOJ would like to know that.

 

[GuppyWN]

Looks like you guys have just about hashed it all out.

Feel better?

Gup

 

[27 driver]

But you are ok with putting your guys, some tried but failed to get hired at SWA, above our guys?

Hypocritical, don't you think!

No I am for a fair integration. You are the ones wanting a staple job. You act like all of us have applied to SWA. I bet it is less than 5%. And many that did applied to every airline out there at one point or another. People job hunting put in resumes everywhere. Once they find a job that stops. If that argument makes you feel better so be it. Yes I am OK with putting some of our guys above some of your guys. You think a 3 year SWA guy should be above a 15 year AAI guy. You guys claim that culture is so important but it only for SWAPA and not anyone else. Yet you call me a hypocrite.

 

[GuppyWN]

Less than 5% of Airtran pilots with apps into Southwest before the announcement?

Whatcha' wanna bet on that? A little birdie told me the number was closer to 5 HUNDRED.

Gup

 

[ivauir]

No I am for a fair integration. You are the ones wanting a staple job.

27,

Some of your coworkers are advocating extreme and even silly positions on the SLI. It doesn't have to be either "staple" or "date of hire". There are plenty of options in between.

I think there is so much emotion on our side because we have so much to lose. Where as there simply is no way an AAI pilot can end up worse off in the integration.

Good luck to us all. Done poorly this acquisition will ruin this place. I trust SWA to be reasonable while protecting it's employees interests.

But some of the AAI posters on here (combined with who their lawyer is) have me really worried that they are going be extreme.

Especially troubling is that apparently some of the posters advocating these extreme positions are in your union!

 

[redflyer65]

Spot on ^^^

 

[27 driver]

Ivauir,
I can only speak for myself but all I want is a fair integration. Everyone I have spoken with here wants nothing more than fair treatment. Don't get me wrong we have our 10%'ers. I think you will find that the majority here at AAI are the same. We simply want a fair shake.

 

[GuppyWN]

What's fair?

Gup

 

[27 driver]

27,

Some of your coworkers are advocating extreme and even silly positions on the SLI. It doesn't have to be either "staple" or "date of hire". There are plenty of options in between.

I think there is so much emotion on our side because we have so much to lose. Where as there simply is no way an AAI pilot can end up worse off in the integration.

Good luck to us all. Done poorly this acquisition will ruin this place. I trust SWA to be reasonable while protecting it's employees interests.

But some of the AAI posters on here (combined with who their lawyer is) have me really worried that they are going be extreme.

Especially troubling is that apparently some of the posters advocating these extreme positions are in your union!

If you don't mind me asking who is our lawyer that you speak of. Do you mean ALPA or the guy we retained for the merger. You can't expect SWAPA to go for the throat and ALPA to roll over. It just doesn't work that way. Honestly I believe cooler heads will prevail. IMHO our unions will negotiate what they can and the arbitrator will decide the rest. Please keep in mind that the posters on here only less than 1% of our pilot group.
Cheers

 

[27 driver]

What's fair?

Gup

There in lies the problem GUP.

Shots on me. We are way past the beer phase.

 

[GuppyWN]

I agree. I'm on my way right now.

Not to dig on you but you said you want fair. You must have SOME idea of what that is.

Gup

 

[Bob Dylan]

I agree. I'm on my way right now.

Not to dig on you but you said you want fair. You must have SOME idea of what that is.

Gup

AT pilots would take a staple to the bottom of the SWA list with pay protections for two years. Either that or they work under their crappy new TA.

If I were negotiating the SLI for SWA, that's what I'd offer, or walk away. They will accept it.

 

[GuppyWN]

Or we could be adults and discuss it.

Gup

 

[Uppercrust]

AT pilots would take a staple to the bottom of the SWA list with pay protections for two years. Either that or they work under their crappy new TA.

If I were negotiating the SLI for SWA, that's what I'd offer, or walk away. They will accept it.

I'd make em interview.

 

[27 driver]

I agree. I'm on my way right now.

Not to dig on you but you said you want fair. You must have SOME idea of what that is.

Gup

You are right GUP but I bet it differs from what you think is fair. I am junior here at AAI and I will be junior at LUV. Our unions have asked us not to discuss our opinions online so I will refrain. Needless to say my opinion will not matter much in the over all scheme of things much like everyone here on FI.

Double shot with a beer back.

Only now we have to split the tab. Getting expensive

 

[SWA/FO]

Only now we have to split the tab. Getting expensive

Not with your pending SWA Pay. You'll be fine.

 

[RedDogC130]

No I am for a fair integration. You are the ones wanting a staple job. You act like all of us have applied to SWA. I bet it is less than 5%. And many that did applied to every airline out there at one point or another. People job hunting put in resumes everywhere. Once they find a job that stops.

The number I thought I read was 482 former airtran at SWA. So out of let's say 5900, 482 would equals....roughly 8%....that were hired and took the job....not counting those who did not take it....or those who did not get hired at all. I think you may be a bit off on your percentages...I'm just sayin

 

[RedDogC130]

From this junior AAI FO, I would gladly take some kind of fair integration with a no furlough clause. I am on the bottom here. I would much rather be on the bottom there. I would come to work happy and with a smile every time.

Most guys and gals here at AAI have been hired post 9/11. What percentage of your group have been hired since then?

Taken from the please buy airtran thread. You seem to be consistent in wanting a fair solution. Glad you would not mind being on the bottom of our list. I would like to run the numbers to the question you asked in the last sentence.

 

[luv2fly]

Most guys and gals here at AAI have been hired post 9/11. What percentage of your group have been hired since then?

The percentage is lower, but the total number of pilots hired at SWA since September 11th is greater than your entire seniority list.

 

[PCL_128]

I was told $140 Million increase over the term of the CBA. If that's incorrect, it came from the NC.

Isn't AirTran projected to net over $160 Million this year?

The $140 million number is low. Remember, it's over $50 million in just the first year, and it's a five year deal. Also, AirTran won't make nearly $160 million this year in net profit. With that said, it's ridiculous to think that AirTran can't afford this contract without the SWA deal. They could afford far more.

Your lack of general accounting is embarrassing. Your current raises increase AT costs enough to wipe out your best year's (2009) net profit. That increase in cost is per year. Call your union, or better yet just call your VC, or just call PCL.

You don't want him to call me. I won't tell him what you're saying, thats for sure. You need to check your facts.

 

[GuppyWN]

The number I thought I read was 482 former airtran at SWA. So out of let's say 5900, 482 would equals....roughly 8%....that were hired and took the job....not counting those who did not take it....or those who did not get hired at all. I think you may be a bit off on your percentages...I'm just sayin

He said APPLIED, not hired. I can assure you his number is off by roughly 30% - or more.

Gup