Swan Song for Song

[fastbird]

News is reporting this morning that Delta may eliminate it's internal alter ego carrier Song.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

Confederate Soldiers Unite

I smell a General Lee sighting!

Sorry, I couldn't resist!

 

[BeCareful!]

Have you ever met a pilot who thought Song was a good idea?

I haven't.

What is it about being in upper airline management that makes you do stupid things? Airlines inside of airlines don't really work. They dilute the brand name, confuse customers, and cost a bunch of extra money.

It's laughable that 10-to-15 years after Cal Lite, Delta Express, Shuttle by United, MetroJet, Delta and United come up with Song and Ted, which have all the same inherent problems yet don't even try to lower costs.

Most of the idiots on this board, myself included, could have told DAL and UAL management this wouldn't work, so can someone please tell us why these guys deserve half a million dollars every year?

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Because they have a better union than we do.

 

[On Your Six]

News is reporting this morning that Delta may eliminate it's internal alter ego carrier Song.

Interesting. Can you provide a link to the report?

You would think that Delta would try to broaden Song domestically (the product is so much better than normal Delta mainline) and then maintain mainline with some improvements for the higher-margin international routes. Having flown on Song myself a few times, I really appreciate the new seats, the IFE and, of course, the younger and less-jaded flight attendants... I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Mach92]

Interesting. Can you provide a link to the report?

You would think that Delta would try to broaden Song domestically (the product is so much better than normal Delta mainline) and then maintain mainline with some improvements for the higher-margin international routes. Having flown on Song myself a few times, I really appreciate the new seats, the IFE and, of course, the younger and less-jaded flight attendants... I'll believe it when I see it.

Delta says all that will be comming over:

First Class back in (24 seats)
IFE on up to 100 Jets
Same seats
Still the same song type ride

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

Interesting. Can you provide a link to the report?

You would think that Delta would try to broaden Song domestically (the product is so much better than normal Delta mainline) and then maintain mainline with some improvements for the higher-margin international routes. Having flown on Song myself a few times, I really appreciate the new seats, the IFE and, of course, the younger and less-jaded flight attendants... I'll believe it when I see it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051028/ap_on_bi_ge/delta_song

 

[michael707767]

I am a Delta pilot and I admit in the beginning I thought Song was a bad idea. However, I have come around. Song works great, the pax love it, its a good product, and I think it shoud be expanded. The problem is, as I understand it, what really makes Song work are the flight attendants down there. Lets be honest, the mainline flight attendants, well lets just say, are a bit lacking. But the Song flight attendants are fantastic. They really make it a great experiance for the pax. Unfortunately though, Delta is getting ready to furlough about 2500 flight attendants, and since a large number of the flight attendants at Song are the very junior, they will be the ones to go. Take them out of the equation and replace them with your standard mainline flight attendant, and I think you have just eliminated the biggest difference between Song and the mainline. Songs performance would start to decline rapidly. I think management knows this, so its time to just blend it all back into the mainline.

Having said that, what I was told is they have learned some lessons from Song. Specifically, the pax love the TVs, and if they can get approval from the creditors committee, they will be adding them to a bunch of mainline jets. Probably a few other lessons learned from Song. But, its a goner.

 

[rudderdog]

AMR may have made a good decision after all....to stay out of the Song, Ted thing.

Speaking of, anyone know how Ted is doing?

 

[NEDude]

I remeber Grinstein saying, shortly after he started, saying something to the effect that with Song, Delta was providing the nicest product (leather seats, TV etc) to their lowest paying passengers. He felt that Delta was a valuable name and it should not be diluted with an alter-ego company. He indicated at the time that the service of Song should be integrated into the mainline service.

 

[StarChecker]

That's too bad. I've deadheaded on Song a bunch of times. All the flights were thoroughly enjoyable and the crews did a fantastic job.

Back in February, we did JFK-MCO for $59.00 each way on Song. Might be why it's going buh-bye.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Unfortunately though, Delta is getting ready to furlough about 2500 flight attendants, and since a large number of the flight attendants at Song are the very junior, they will be the ones to go. Take them out of the equation and replace them with your standard mainline flight attendant, and I think you have just eliminated the biggest difference between Song and the mainline.

I too think SONG was working. Hard to continue as is and probably cheaper to bring back into the fold.

Not trying to hijack the thread...2500 FA furloughs? How many pilots then??

 

[snow-back]

I fly a lot of Song trips and it's a great product. My question was why they were giving this great product away at cut rate prices to the leisure traveller, when they could add some first class and business amenities and get closer to premium rates from it. I guess they answered my question.

I've still got my resumes out though!

 

[pilotyip]

you have wrong, Song is absorbing DAL, and then Song will change its name to Delta Airlines and go back into cropdusting in Monroe, LA

 

[race#53]

i think i have it.....
Delta created Song but kept it in Delta....
Now Song is being killed but kept in Delta...
Delta is staying Delta

 

[michael707767]

Not trying to hijack the thread...2500 FA furloughs? How many pilots then??

Well considering we have had over 2000 pilots retire in the last three years, I think there is a chance we will get by without any pilot furloughs. If there are some, it won't be many.

 

[Medeco]

The Facts!

I think this is a great idea. I hope the FA's will be the new and improved though and not the old hags, that is the biggest challenge I see in this, but I think the VP's in the big building recognize this, the question is how do they do this without getting sued by the FA's.

Medeco

Today, we are announcing another significant step in the transformation of Delta that will set us apart from our competition and give customers another great reason to fly with us first. Beginning in May, 2006, we will merge Song into Delta, creating a new and unique long-haul domestic Song service that will set a new standard in transcontinental travel. This is another way we're providing customers with a fresh and constantly improving passenger experience when they choose Delta.
Simply put, we are incorporating the best of Song into the best of Delta. Here's what we plan to do:

• Add 26 First Class seats to each of Song's existing fleet of 48 757-200 aircraft, making the service more attractive to business travelers and significantly enhancing revenue opportunities.
• Convert an additional 50-plus Delta aircraft to two-class Song service, complete with all-leather seating and new interiors throughout.
• Expand Song's state-of-the-art personal digital in-flight entertainment system to all 100-plus aircraft, with 24 channels of live television, 10 on-demand video channels, interactive video games and MP3 programming that allows customers to create their own play lists from an inventory of more than 1,600 songs.
• Dedicate this exclusive fleet to all transcontinental Delta routes beginning fall 2006 and expand the service to include all routes over 1750 miles over two years.
• Raise the bar on customer service in the long-haul domestic market by incorporating Delta's new uniforms, improved snack service, and award-winning SkyMiles program to offer customers the best value in transcontinental travel.

Market research clearly shows that Song has become a customer favorite. Song's route network, however, has been limited to high-density leisure markets. As you know, we recently announced the largest international expansion in Delta's history, which allows us to re-deploy wide-body aircraft from domestic to international. This opens up more profitable opportunities to fly these 757's on other routes within the domestic system, especially if we can offer a two-class configuration. By merging the brands, we will also benefit from a more simplified operation, reduced overhead costs, and more focused marketing resources.
Best of all, we are keeping the best of the Song experience and extending it to more Delta customers. We've already incorporated some of what we've learned from Song into mainline. We've been renewing our interiors with new leather seats, our new service team uniforms roll out early next year, our new snack service is receiving high marks from customers, and we've significantly improved turn times and other processes to make Delta more efficient and customer-friendly. All of this, plus the hard work and attention to customers that only Delta people can provide, has produced 11 consecutive months of year-over-year improvement in customer service ratings on Delta.
To maximize the value of Song's success at Delta, Joanne Smith, president of Song, will become vice president of Consumer Marketing at Delta effective immediately. Joanne will also continue to lead the Song organization through the transition. She and the Consumer Marketing team will take Delta's products and services to the next creative level.
The strength of Delta has always been you, our people, and your strong service ethic. With the right tools and support, we can deliver the kind of service our customers expect and value. You can and should expect us to provide those tools, and to find the resources to make your efforts to improve customer service count. Now, with one of the most innovative and competitive new services to offer our customers, we are in a better position to deliver a steadily improving travel experience for Delta customers.

 

[SSDD]

I knew it! When they came out with that pink color scheme...that was the begining of the end!

 

[G4G5]

I am guessing that the cost of retrofitting and repanting the aircraft has some sort of an advantage when it's done under ch11.

 

[On Your Six]

As I thought, Delta will keep the best of Song which is smart. See the article below:

Song to be folded into Delta lines
Airline's own turnaround efforts remove need for separate discount line.
October 28, 2005: 11:09 AM EDT
Friday that it plans to merge its discount airline, Song, into its regular Delta service.
Song, launched in April 2003, will continue to fly as a separate brand until May 2006, and customers will be able to book flights until then. After that, it will become part of Delta.
As part of the restructuring, Delta hopes to merge Song's customer-service features with Delta's potentially more profitable routes.
During the next two years, Delta will adopt many of Song's features into existing Delta lines, including improved amenities, such as leather seats, 24 channels of live television, 10 on-demand video channels, video games and a digital-music library.
"We are incorporating the best of Song into the best of Delta," said Gerald Grinstein, Delta's chief executive officer.
Delta, the nation's No. 3 airline, currently is operating under bankruptcy protection.
Delta launched Song to compete with other low-fare carriers, including JetBlue and Southwest. But it did not have as low a cost structure as those carriers.
Delta (Research) has not broken out results for Song, but the company has not been profitable since 2000.
Though rising jet fuel prices have hurt Delta, that has not been the only problem. Some analysts have said that Delta waited longer than some of its rivals to trim costs. It did not win cost concessions from its pilots union until last October, after paying them the highest wages in the industry under a contract reached months before the Sept. 11 attacks.
In addition to Delta, carriers operating in bankruptcy are United, the No. 2 airline, and Northwest (No. 4). [URL="http://i.cnn.net/money/images/bug.gif"]http://i.cnn.net/money/images/bug.gif[/URL]

 

[737 Pylt]

bye bye Song

While I also agree with everyone's statements that Song was a great product, you all are forgetting who you are dealing with.....This management is the most incompetent group of bafoons working in the business. Not sure, I give you Delta Express....Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. If this place is to survive, then it needs a clean sweep at the 4th floor. God help us all. I urge everyone working under the DAL umbrella to quickly update thier resumes and work on plan B because we are all doomed with this group of idiots at the helm.
737

 

[FDJ2]

The Song product is expanding to the mainline. 50 more mainline aircraft will be converted to Song service in the next two years. Song service will upgrade its amenities to include first class seating.

I think this is great news. Longer domestic routes needed to be upgraded to Song service. Song has proven itself and the domestic mainline fleet will start converting itself to all Song service for transcontinental flights.

In the next two years we'll see a doubling of Song service at DAL. 100 Delta aircraft providing Song service coast to coast.:beer:

 

[-9Capt]

Delta to Discontinue Song by May 2006

By MIKE STOBBE
Associated Press Writer
ATLANTA — Delta Air Lines Inc., which is reorganizing under protection from the federal bankruptcy court, announced plans Friday to discontinue its discount carrier Song and incorporate Song's fleet into Delta's regular service.
Song will continue to fly as a separate brand until May 2006, Delta officials said.
(enlarge photo)
A Song Boeing 757 airplane is seen Wednesday, Sept. 3, 2003, at the Los Angeles International Airport with a Delta Airlines jet in the background. Delta Air Lines Inc., which is reorganizing under protection from the federal bankruptcy court, announced plans Friday, Oct. 28, 2005, to discontinue its discount carrier Song by May 2006 and incorporate Song's fleet into Delta's regular service. (AP Photo/Damiam Dovarganes)

After May, Delta plans to refit the single-class Song airplanes to include first-class seating to make the planes conform with Delta's regular service. The planes will be gradually be repainted in Delta colors by next fall.
Joanne Smith, currently president of Song, has been named vice president of consumer marketing for Delta, effective immediately.
Atlanta-based Delta filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection from creditors in New York on Sept. 14. Song filed for bankruptcy protection the same day.
Delta officials said there will be no layoffs directly from Song's elimination. Any reductions that do occur are part of the 7,000 to 9,000 job cuts Delta announced last month as part of its bankruptcy restructuring, a spokeswoman said.
Delta expects to cut marketing and other costs as a result of closing Song, but the company did not release estimates.
Song was created in 2003 as a hip travel option for leisure travelers, with amenities such as increased leg room, preflight meal ordering and even a music service. It was designed to compete with JetBlue Airways Corp. and other low-cost airlines.
Song has 48 Boeing 757-200 aircraft. It flies from 16 locations, including Boston, Hartford, New York, Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Atlanta, five cities in Florida and three Caribbean vacation spots — Nassau, San Juan and Aruba.
Delta did not release figures on Song's profits or losses. But company officials said they considered it a hit with customers: This year Song has filled 78 percent of its seats, Delta officials said.
Song also has been a successful lab experiment that allowed Delta to try new services, said Jim Whitehurst, Delta's chief operating officer.
Delta is adopting new uniforms, new leather interiors, improved in-flight entertainment systems and other Song features. The airline already has picked up on Song's simpler fare system.
"Overall, Song has been a home run," said Paul Matsen, Delta's chief marketing officer.
Despite its success, Delta officials say they wanted the flexibility to use Song's aircraft on other routes. In addition, some Song fliers wanted a first-class option, the airline said.
But aviation industry expert Robert Shumsky, an associate professor of business at Dartmouth College, said Song should be counted as an example of a failed attempt by a hub-and-spoke carrier to create low-cost, non-hub 'airlines within airlines.'
"It's hard for me to believe they would end something that was working well," Shumsky said.
___

 

[Blue Dude]

Song was begun primarily in response to one carrier: JetBlue. There was no other reason to launch that particular brand at that particular time. It was a roll of the dice that ultimately didn't work. The product itself was fine, and it did have an effect on the competition, but it never was self-sustaining. It was therefore irrational to keep it going. It should have been killed a couple of years ago when the new CEO took over, but he saw an opportunity to use it as a test bed, so it stayed.

Ultimately, this means that Delta has finally realized that it can no longer afford to act irrationally and create entire operating divisions merely in response to a single competitive threat. That is a good thing for all concerned, even competitors. It means that a certain level of rationality has returned to Delta, and rational competitors are greatly to be desired over irrational ones, even if the latter is self-destructive. After chapter 11, Delta can't afford to play "I'm gonna git you sucka" anymore. Instead, they end up improving their product across the board, and that can't be a bad thing.

 

[Mugs]

Song was begun primarily in response to one carrier: JetBlue. There was no other reason to launch that particular brand at that particular time. It was a roll of the dice that ultimately didn't work. The product itself was fine, and it did have an effect on the competition, but it never was self-sustaining. It was therefore irrational to keep it going. It should have been killed a couple of years ago when the new CEO took over, but he saw an opportunity to use it as a test bed, so it stayed.

Ultimately, this means that Delta has finally realized that it can no longer afford to act irrationally and create entire operating divisions merely in response to a single competitive threat. That is a good thing for all concerned, even competitors. It means that a certain level of rationality has returned to Delta, and rational competitors are greatly to be desired over irrational ones, even if the latter is self-destructive. After chapter 11, Delta can't afford to play "I'm gonna git you sucka" anymore. Instead, they end up improving their product across the board, and that can't be a bad thing.

E-190 rates, the desire to do trans-con turns especially when you know guys would commute in that same day to do it..........let's be careful with the "rational competitor" crap Blue Dude. Everybody is irrational these days.

 

[Blue Dude]

E-190 rates, the desire to do trans-con turns especially when you know guys would commute in that same day to do it..........let's be careful with the "rational competitor" crap Blue Dude. Everybody is irrational these days.

I expected better, mugs. The E190 rates aren't irrational, just disappointing. I'd be very surprised to see a transcon turn ever becoming legal though. It's difficult to comment since there are no details available and may never be available.

Compare either one to spending $80 million chasing a market segment you aren't cost competitive on, and won't be after the money is spent either. Then expand that division at the expense of capturing higher yielding traffic, even as the competition you hoped to harm is getting a fare premium at a lower cost. That is irrational.

 

[pgcfii2002]

It appears that they will operate mostly 757's fitted with IFE and the like on a large number of domestic routes. Any idea what will happen when the 757's retire?? I'm guessing most are pushing 20+ years by now??

 

[pgcfii2002]

The Song product will remain, sounds like they are just repainting the aircraft, blending it in to the current fleet.

 

[8vATE]

E-190 rates, ..........let's be careful with the "rational competitor" crap Blue Dude. Everybody is irrational these days.

Yea .... right up there with 14 year USAirways F/O rates....
which are $0 per hour.


Blue dude's observation about the Emb190 rates are accurate .

They are disappointing.....
But so are paycuts, furloughs and inept management.

A rational business plan is the golden egg now.
SWA has it.
Jetblue is working on it.

 

[skykid]

I expected better, mugs. The E190 rates aren't irrational, just disappointing.

I'd say pathetic is a better word for the rates than disappointing. FIX IT! You've got 12 year Bus F/O's at 76/hour, and 4 year E190 CAPTAINS making the same thing. That's what a 3 year FedEx plummer makes. Before you post that I don't know how the total compensation package works - I do. I guess if you upgrade quickly to the left seat and make more money than you ever have, it seems like you are getting over. Your're not, legacy pilots gave up 30% and a pension to match you.