SWA took one step closer to being a regional carrier

[radarlove]

I won't vote for it, given the chance.

See? Luddite. I give up. Three people have shown you your errors and you cover your ears and say "nananananna".

Some people in this world don't want their cheese moved.

It doens't matter to any of us three whether you vote for it or not, but all three of us have had great experiences--which you couldn't care about, you've already set your mind even though you have not a clue, nor experience about the subject. Folks like you make me nuts on this board, I don't know why I even bothered the time to type.

At least you're not rude, SWA hires nice folks, but they sure seem to be stuck in a time machine.

 

[DH2WN]

See? Luddite. I give up. Three people have shown you your errors and you cover your ears and say "nananananna".

Some people in this world don't want their cheese moved.

It doens't matter to any of us three whether you vote for it or not, but all three of us have had great experiences--which you couldn't care about, you've already set your mind even though you have not a clue, nor experience about the subject. Folks like you make me nuts on this board, I don't know why I even bothered the time to type.

At least you're not rude, SWA hires nice folks, but they sure seem to be stuck in a time machine.

It's not stuck in a time machine when you know your union is to stupid to implement it properly. This test period is a prime example. PBS would destroy all happiness we have because we don't know how to make it work.

 

[radarlove]

It's not stuck in a time machine when you know your union is to stupid to implement it properly. This test period is a prime example. PBS would destroy all happiness we have because we don't know how to make it work.

I dunno...why don't you fix your union? That's the easy answer.

Anyway, it's just that some NWA guy probably spent 30 minutes composing a really thoughtful response and the response is, "So what?"

It's like if I said, "I love Netflix and here's why!", and you came back and said, "Doesn't matter. I KNOW they're going to rip me off somehow. It'll just happen. I always get ripped off."

It reminds my of my old, old days on the MEC when guys just were blockheads about anything (Anything!) new.

Who cares if SWA gets PBS? I sure don't. You guys deserve what you get, it sounds like. No wonder you turn off your EFIS, you probably have guys that don't believe it works.

 

[airlinepilot]

PBS vs our current sysytem at SWA

I have worked under PBS for several years at another company. Unfortunately pilots all think their aircraft and scheduling system are the best since they use it daily. For those non-SWA pilots I have to tell you the present system (which you cannot understand since you don't use it) we use has a GREAT DEAL of flexibility for quality of life, vacation and increase or decrease in pay. I have used PBS and what we have is a great deal better for all concerned. Our current system is much like "ding..free to move around the country"....there is no way PBS will give us the freedom in our schedule. PBS is a non-starter when compared to what we have now.....even if we keep the current side letters.....we would still be much better off.

 

[OffHot]

Radarlove we (SWA pilots), do appreciate your comments as PBS is a system that most of use do not understand. Like wise our present system isn't broke, its just that the company is looking for even more productivity out of our pilots. I'm not sure how your productivitly is for your pilot group, but I'm guessing that if we are not more productive we are very close. It's tough for a lot of use to change systems when we already work 3 on 4 off and are very productive doing it. Please keep the informatin coming as it helps us understand a system that might effect us in the future.

 

[Tripower455]

See? Luddite. I give up. Three people have shown you your errors and you cover your ears and say "nananananna".

Based on 10 years of experience at SWA, I am looking at this pragmatically. You obviously don't work for SWA or understand how our collective bargaining association works, or you'd be right there with me. If PBS works where you are, great. It will not work to the benefit of SWA pilots.

Some people in this world don't want their cheese moved.

It doens't matter to any of us three whether you vote for it or not, but all three of us have had great experiences--which you couldn't care about, you've already set your mind even though you have not a clue, nor experience about the subject. Folks like you make me nuts on this board, I don't know why I even bothered the time to type.

See my above answer.... we obviously work for different carriers. If it works for you, then GREAT. It will not work at SWA.......

At least you're not rude, SWA hires nice folks, but they sure seem to be stuck in a time machine.

I agree.....

 

[radarlove]

Radarlove we (SWA pilots), do appreciate your comments as PBS is a system that most of use do not understand. Like wise our present system isn't broke, its just that the company is looking for even more productivity out of our pilots. I'm not sure how your productivitly is for your pilot group, but I'm guessing that if we are not more productive we are very close. It's tough for a lot of use to change systems when we already work 3 on 4 off and are very productive doing it. Please keep the informatin coming as it helps us understand a system that might effect us in the future.

Well, thanks. That was a nice thing to say. As I said, SWA hires nice people.

 

[mrnolmts]

Well, like someone mentioned earlier, by going from 3-day to 4-day trips, it will obviously make it harder to pick up extra trips for those who are looking to make extra money. Would certainly be a consideration if I was in you guys' shoes

 

[canyonblue]

Why does everyone want to "tar and feather" a guy who says he wants to quit his airline and go elsewhere?

He would have to get hired by SWA before he quit, I'm not the only one who knows he does not work at SWA and only starts flames, am I? (Ok, except SWADude who also pointed it out)

 

[GuppyWN]

I think what most SWA guys on here are nervous about is that our "union" only cares about age 60 repeal. ANYTHING else is secondhand. Therefore, PBS would be a bad thing for us. We would get hosed.

Gup

 

[CKJET]

I have a buddy with American...He has had 367 days off straight...course the pay has been less than he would like. I think I can live with only getting 17 days off a month.

PBS would kill any flexibility we have in our schedules. I prefer to make my lines better through elitt or trip/trade. I don't want the company trying make my lines better.

American has given me close to 1500 straight days off. I agree with your buddy the pay is not great!

 

[737tanker]

The thing that worries me about PBS is how it would handle vacations. Under the current rules at SWA I turned 1 week of vacation into 18 days off, and then I took 2 weeks of vacation in March and turned it into 31 days off. So for 3 weeks of vacation I had 49 days off, and I only lost 7 TFP. Could PBS do that? From everything I hear the answer is no..

 

[Tripower455]

The thing that worries me about PBS is how it would handle vacations. Under the current rules at SWA I turned 1 week of vacation into 18 days off, and then I took 2 weeks of vacation in March and turned it into 31 days off. So for 3 weeks of vacation I had 49 days off, and I only lost 7 TFP. Could PBS do that? From everything I hear the answer is no..

It could, but likely won't...

 

[canyonblue737]

I hear you on the schedule. The side letter was not very clear and it was only a test. I think that's why few voted on it. We definitely don't want PBS.

Unfortunately, I have spent alot of time debating the pro's and con's of PBS and I would say PBS may be what both sides are looking for. PBS would allow management to gain more productivity by eliminating most of the month to month integration and scheduling problems (saved heads like LOA 31), and it also would allow pilots the ability to build a schedule that has high credit and lower days off or lower credit and more days off.

Their are some potential hidden surprises in PBS and it would take a lot of testing to work out the hidden surprises and to ensure that PBS is the solution is really what the pilot group wants.

Dude, I am a SWA guy and I used to fly for a company with PBS. You *don't* want PBS, it will kill QOL for 90% of us. While you can make a PBS system give you similar benefits to what we have now, that negates the whole purpose of using PBS from the companies standpoint... so if and when we get PBS it will result in the loss of vacation time, scheduling conflicts that benefit the pilot, the extreme flexibility to change your schedule after you get it etc.

 

[canyonblue737]

PBS is unrelated to vacation. It's just a way to pick the trips you want to fly and put them into your monthly schedule.

Vacation is handled differently at different companies. Bid your line on PBS, then overlay vacation pn top, what's wrong with that?

With PBS you get the month of trips you want, instead of the month of trips that some guy who doesn't know you puts together.

the *whole point* of PBS from the companies perspective (and it will be expensive so they need a positive) is preventing vacation and monthly overlap issues. you will not get the company to overlay vacation on top of a PBS line... ever. as someone who flew a PBS system, i can't imagine ANYWAY you get a PBS system to produce the cash advantages and flexibility to change your line post receiving it... short of simply gutting the core of the PBS system that saves the company money... why they want it.

now if we decide the sacrifice in pay (vacation) and flexibility (tons of options to drop, elitt, trade etc. will be reduced by PBS) after the fact is worth the benefit to the company (due to poor industry conditions etc.) and the ability to get slightly closer to the line you wanted in the first place (in terms of trip density and destinations, a/c type etc.) that is a different story. just don't think you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Widow's Son]

I have never worked with PBS, but the guys that I have flown with who have say that it is nothing like what it is being made out to be. What is it about PBS that would make trip drop, trip trade, elitt, and other flexibility issues go away? Those are net zero items for the company now and they are happy as long as the trips get covered. Wouldn't all those items work independently from any scheduling scheme that we have and continue status quo whether we had PBS or anything else?
Personally I don't like having to spend a lot of time bidding and then a whole lot more time trying to make what I get acceptable through Elitt which I have never been able to connect to on the day it opens anyway. Regardless, if Elitt is so flexible to fix things wouldn't it be just as flexible under PBS especially if there were fewer things to fix?

 

[SWAPoolie]

For SWA people who don't read the SWAPA forum:

The only true way to know how PBS will affect us is to test it side by side with our current system for several months to a year. We would bid with the old method and the PBS method to see how PBS would turn out, but not use it. Just a real time test bed. This is how I tested systems at AT&T back when IT depts. were called CIS depts. I don't understand why we wouldn't do that here.

This way we can work out the details with actual use of the product and determine what is good for us and the company. I would like to think there would be a give and take from both parties.

Short of this, I'm voting no on PBS. That decision is purely based on the loose language of the current contract and the animosity toward the union I see each day from the people I meet and fly with. There needs to be more union trust out there and it's all in the details. Additionally, there are too many loopholes for the company to get us on and us to get the company on. If PBS isn't tested properly before going live with it the company will take advantage and the pilots who "work the system" will also take advantage. That leaves idealists like myself taking it from all sides.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Radar, The one thing I will NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, consider is PBS if it turns my 7 day vacation into a 7 day vacation. Last month I had 18 days off with a 7 day vacation bid.

Can you get 3 weeks off with a one week vacation award if you have PBS?

Gup

Last year I got 24 days off in a row with one week of vacation with PBS.

 

[GuppyWN]

Well there you have it. Who do you work for because I'm sure PBS is a very hot item for the company and I'd like to know who to reference as a comparison.

Thanks,
Gup

 

[Guppiedriver]

Dude, I am a SWA guy and I used to fly for a company with PBS. You *don't* want PBS, it will kill QOL for 90% of us. While you can make a PBS system give you similar benefits to what we have now, that negates the whole purpose of using PBS from the companies standpoint... so if and when we get PBS it will result in the loss of vacation time, scheduling conflicts that benefit the pilot, the extreme flexibility to change your schedule after you get it etc.

I can't believe that you used to work for a company that had PBS, because you clearly don't understand it.