SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[PCL_128]

Sounds a little socialist to me. Not hatin, just sayin.

Probably why I agree with wave on something for once.

 

[PCL_128]

So what is ALPAs excuse? 5 years of fighting at AirTran and at the end of the day the company was sold and the negotiation wrapped up when management decided.

As someone else pointed out, ALPA was only here for 18 months when we got our CBA. The joke that was the NPA allowed negotiations to drag on for the other 3.5 years. ALPA basically started from scratch, did a complete re-write of our Scheduling section, and got it all done in 18 months.

Lets talk about the contract:
1. Caved on scope

You mean improvements on scope. Scope is more than seat limits. It's also merger protections. But you gave those away because you were a coward, didn't you?

2. Industry trailing rates even with a massive FO raise

Actually, industry standard rates.

3. The same reserve system as ASA (SureJet or whatever they are)

Not even close.

4. Yes it was better than the old contract. That is like saying the Pittsburgh Steelers are better than Jacksonville this season.

I only like this statement because it ridicules the Steelers, which will drive maxblast up the wall. But in reality, our CBA was an enormous step forward, and brought us in line with other major carriers. Was it what it would have been if we hadn't had our leverage pulled out from under us by Southwest? No, we did have to give up on likely additional gains because of that.

The strike vote you brag about is the same strike vote taken at every airline during contract talks. It always passes by 98% and ALPA sends out some rah rah email saying "the company knows we mean business". I think ALPA drafted the letter in 1968.

I don't brag about it. I consider it a joke. The same pilots who voted 98% to go on strike and actually shut down their airline pissed their pants and folded like a cheap lawn chair just a few months later when there was virtually no chance that their airline would actually be shut down, just because Gary made some veiled non-credible threats.

My guess is GK called and said something like "wrap up the labor issues"... then we got a contract.

Really? That would be illegal. So you're saying that Gary is a criminal. I mean, I see worse things written on the bathroom wall in ATL, but still not very nice.

 

[SWA Bubba]

I only like this statement because it ridicules the Steelers, which will drive maxblast up the wall. But in reality, our CBA was an enormous step forward, and brought us in line with other major carriers. Was it what it would have been if we hadn't had our leverage pulled out from under us by Southwest? No, we did have to give up on likely additional gains because of that.

You know, I could be wrong, but from reading some of these comments over the past year, it almost seems like PCL doesn't like Maxblast or something.... Almost.

Ah..., I'm probably imagining this....

Bubba

 

[madjack]

"Was it what it would have been if we hadn't had our leverage pulled out from under us by Southwest?"

Whatever

 

[redflyer65]

"Was it what it would have been if we hadn't had our leverage pulled out from under us by Southwest?"

Whatever

Exactly!

 

[madjack]

Had a pro standards guy on the JS, and he had some interesting insights...

- back in the day of shorter upgrade time, most of the pro standard issues were with the CPs, but since "it is hard to hide your inner a-hole for 10+ years" the Pro-stan issues are 50-50 split between the seats...

- there was one fist fight between an FAT and a RSW FO, a while back...

- there have been issues with RSW flying with FAT...did not elaborate...

- His opinion: Company is waiting for the integration to be complete, and then will look to make an example of someone on the RSW and FAT side...right now the FATs have a longer rope than the RSWs...but that will change when the transition is complete.

Better play nice, just passing this along...

 

[waveflyer]

Sounds a little socialist to me. Not hatin, just sayin.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2

Please.

What the hell do you think seniority is? If we're going to be loose with the term and all...?

 

[waveflyer]

You left out the lower pay scale GK would be using for the Q 400 in your math .

SWA would have more Q400 than 787s

Hypothetical as it is- you're right-
Lets say it gives us all $170/trip in my equation-
Still better than outsourcing- and I loved the turboprop flying I did- if it makes SWA money, ill fly the hell out of that thing

 

[waveflyer]

Did you not read my post?, I said you were correct. With that one pay scale that you champion at UPS (with the same pay for flying that tiny little 757), they still have pilots on furlough. You are quite an expert on UPS, a little trouble in paradise got you thinking about what brown can do for you if they hire again?

Nope.

You?

 

[Kharma Police]

Nope.

You?

No, I'm not down with brown.

 

[slaquer5]

Had a pro standards guy on the JS, and he had some interesting insights...

- back in the day of shorter upgrade time, most of the pro standard issues were with the CPs, but since "it is hard to hide your inner a-hole for 10+ years" the Pro-stan issues are 50-50 split between the seats...

- there was one fist fight between an FAT and a RSW FO, a while back...

- there have been issues with RSW flying with FAT...did not elaborate...

- His opinion: Company is waiting for the integration to be complete, and then will look to make an example of someone on the RSW and FAT side...right now the FATs have a longer rope than the RSWs...but that will change when the transition is complete.

Better play nice, just passing this along...

You might need to clarify for the rest of the industry about SWAPA Pro Stand.

They are a worthless paper tiger, that only protect the weak. Some on PS have been the biggest problem child

Look up worthless idiot in Websters . SWAPA pro standards will come up.

 

[Kharma Police]

Had a pro standards guy on the JS, and he had some interesting insights...

- back in the day of shorter upgrade time, most of the pro standard issues were with the CPs, but since "it is hard to hide your inner a-hole for 10+ years" the Pro-stan issues are 50-50 split between the seats...

- there was one fist fight between an FAT and a RSW FO, a while back...

- there have been issues with RSW flying with FAT...did not elaborate...

- His opinion: Company is waiting for the integration to be complete, and then will look to make an example of someone on the RSW and FAT side...right now the FATs have a longer rope than the RSWs...but that will change when the transition is complete.

Better play nice, just passing this along...

Ha! Ha!, I'm guessing it's the same guy who is taking pictures in men's bathrooms?!

Go back to using "Bob Dylan" as your screen name, way funnier, brah.....

 

[madjack]

just passing along info, the picture guy was former culture committee dude...I wasn't real smart on how the pro standards works, apparently the chief pilots nominate guys to the committee...they want folks they can work with...any way the idea is to intercede, and work out the issue with the parties involved and the chief pilot to avoid discipline...

 

[dicko]

SWAPA does not have the cojones to fight SWA. Sad but True. OH, OH, Metallica, nevermind, lost my thought. I am concerned and think SWAPA is way outplayed.

Dear Baked,

When I said this, Bubba threw his toys out of the pram and had a tamper tantrum. I just don't understand ...... Then he said I'd been "noted". Which sounds very ominous.

"You labeled me, I'll label you, so I dub thee unforgiven".

Cheers.

 

[dicko]

I have no idea what you're talking about
Seriously-
I'm not talking about changing anything about our current payscale or taking away rewards of being topped out or senior-
I'm just saying we set a rate for the widebody and combine it in with our 737 rates-
Lets just make math easy - we buy 50 787's- new rate $250 a trip- 700 737's at $200/trip= blended rate for all pilots of $203.33
(X-50*$250=$12,500; Y-700*$200=$140,000; $140k+$12.5k=$152,500/750 a/c= $203.33 tfp)
If we eventually get 300 wide bodies, then that's $215tfp

That's a cunning plan Wave. You've given everybody a 1.5% pay raise to stop a wide body rate for 50 aircraft. Then a 7% raise to run 300 wide bodies ?

You'll have the full support of somebody, that's for sure.

 

[waveflyer]

No, I'm not down with brown.

Yeah- but I like their payscale- do the flying you want to do- not what you're financially pressured to do.

(You should get used to me being correct, btw- just tends to be that way. )

 

[waveflyer]

That's a cunning plan Wave. You've given everybody a 1.5% pay raise to stop a wide body rate for 50 aircraft. Then a 7% raise to run 300 wide bodies ?

You'll have the full support of somebody, that's for sure.

You do understand that the money mgmt pays out is the same either way, right?
Or are you showing off your stupid? I do that now and then too- it's alright

 

[Kharma Police]

Yeah- but I like their payscale- do the flying you want to do- not what you're financially pressured to do.

(You should get used to me being correct, btw- just tends to be that way. )

Yeah sure, but could you imagine doing Adopt-a-Pilot in that uniform? And yes, before you write it, most people would dress up in a clown costume for a phat stack. Not me though, I don't roll like that.

 

[dicko]

stupid? I do that now and then too- it's alright

Ain't that the truth - You just suggested a pay raise of 1.5% for the entire pilot group, to allow the 'worlds most profitable airline' to fly 50 wide bodies.

Perhaps you should stick to workout tips and recipes. What's next Wave ? Spread Captain wages amongst the entire group because you don't want to upgrade ?

Muppet.

 

[zymotic]

- there was one fist fight between an FAT and a RSW FO, a while back...

- there have been issues with RSW flying with FAT...did not elaborate...

Why are Fresno and Ft. Myers not getting along?

 

[737tanker]

The fact that UPS doesn't have any wide-bodies (757 aside) has no bearing, you are correct, I was wrong. You may have won this round Wave, but I'll be back!

If you don't count the 13-747s, 38-MD11s, and 59-767s then you are right the only wide bodies that UPS has are the 75-757s.

 

[waveflyer]

Ain't that the truth - You just suggested a pay raise of 1.5% for the entire pilot group, to allow the 'worlds most profitable airline' to fly 50 wide bodies.

Perhaps you should stick to workout tips and recipes. What's next Wave ? Spread Captain wages amongst the entire group because you don't want to upgrade ?

Muppet.

UPS does it- and theyre a little bit more profitable than us.
A touch

And captain pay- I'm not the FO that thinks capt's don't earn their extra- the job does -
But type a/c-
Each step up in larger a/c has been easier- it's about QOL and the union dynamic- but it's also about VALUING narrow flying.

If you want to fly for a company that views the 73 as a "light twin", delta and united will be hiring. Check em out.

Again, most I fly with and talk to agree 100%.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Dear Baked,

When I said this, Bubba threw his toys out of the pram and had a tamper tantrum. I just don't understand ...... Then he said I'd been "noted". Which sounds very ominous.

"You labeled me, I'll label you, so I dub thee unforgiven".

Cheers.

Actually, that's NOT what you said.

Regardless, what exactly the hell do you know? You alternately accuse SWAPA of being some sort of conspiratorial mastermind that got GK to screw you on its behalf, then on the other hand, they're complete buffoons who can't even talk to GK. How about making up your mind?

Like I said, it's difficult to tell the difference between you being funny, or you being an ass. That's probably because you're also adept at being both at once. And what?--You're mad at me now? I thought I was your homie. Damn, I was just about to tell people that you were my boo.

And besides, I didn't label you at all. "Noted" was just me stating an observation. You've labeled yourself with your screen name, of course, but in my mind, the worst -I- could label you would be to call you "General Lee-like." That would be seriously throwing down the gauntlet!

Bubba

 

[slaquer5]

Ain't that the truth - You just suggested a pay raise of 1.5% for the entire pilot group, to allow the 'worlds most profitable airline' to fly 50 wide bodies.

Perhaps you should stick to workout tips and recipes. What's next Wave ? Spread Captain wages amongst the entire group because youA don't want to upgrade ?

Muppet.

We have pilots that are actually pushing for that . Even a SWAPa rep.

Talk about nuts.

 

[Just thinking]

"apparently the chief pilots nominate guys".....
Mistake number one. Union should be making the choices..... not management.

 

[dicko]

Actually, that's NOT what you said.

Regardless, what exactly the hell do you know? You alternately accuse SWAPA of being some sort of conspiratorial mastermind that got GK to screw you on its behalf, then on the other hand, they're complete buffoons who can't even talk to GK. How about making up your mind?

You're actually making my point for me. What do the two situations above have in common ? They both require GK to give you what you want. In the SLI, your goals were aligned. However, in Section six your goals are divergent. In the SLI, SWAPAs abilities weren't really tested, they held all of the cards with GKs backing. Conspiratorial yes, mastermind no. Section six is a different matter.

Like I said, it's difficult to tell the difference between you being funny, or you being an ass. That's probably because you're also adept at being both at once. And what?--You're mad at me now? I thought I was your homie. Damn, I was just about to tell people that you were my boo.

not mad Bubba. I'm just very, very disappointed in you

And besides, I didn't label you at all. "Noted" was just me stating an observation. You've labeled yourself with your screen name, of course, but in my mind, the worst -I- could label you would be to call you "General Lee-like." That would be seriously throwing down the gauntlet!

it's a line from a Metallica song. Bake referred to it. Keep up.

Bubba

If you're going to complain about others espousing intimate knowledge of your union, your companies history and your contract; you're going to need to erase most of your own posts. Annoying isn't it ?

 

[dicko]

We have pilots that are actually pushing for that . Even a SWAPa rep.

Talk about nuts.

Face palm.

Anyway, here's the problem with Waves utopian paradise - over half of the UPS fleet is large widebody or widebody jets. The other 44% are large narrow body. The admirably high pay numbers are arguable because of the industry high pay on those aircraft (747, MD11, etc.) Their smallest jet is 100,000 pounds heavier than the average SWA 737 and is trans oceanic capable. All of these factors bring the average mixed pay up across the fleets.

SWA would have to buy over 800 787 to match the ratio of wide body to narrow body. Even if you ignored the difference in size between a 737 and a 757.

Spreading the pay for a tiny percentage, produces a tiny difference in pay. If they can convince GK to pay UPS rates I'm all for it though.

 

[waveflyer]

You are seriously dumb aren't you dicko.
Are you even listening?

So apparently what you want is to have a VERY SMALL subset of pilots who all make a LOT more than the rest of us- leaving the vast majority of us hoping an praying that one day we can catch and eat that carrot too- but if we want to stay in the 73 we leave value for the career on the table and give it to another -

Wonderful dynamic you want-
It's really dumb-

Do you not have older mentors retired from legacy type airlines? Have you not heard how crap their life was crossing all those time zones at their age bc they effectively HAD to?

Wake up moron. One pay rate. Period-

Or go apply at delta. The beautiful thing about SWA is that we value regional narrow flying and can make money at it- if you want to change that, move on.

 

[dicko]

You are seriously dumb aren't you dicko.
Are you even listening?

Make your point then. All I've heard from you is:

1. A tiny pay raise to fly wide body international jets,

2. You don't want to fly them so nobody should be payed more to do it.

3. An assumption that everybody thinks the same way as you,

4. Your worried that it will make you look old, but it's really very easy, and

5. Frustration followed by insults when your point is badly made.

Make your point Wave. Or do you have nothing more than some math that proves it doesn't benefit anybody ? Other than the company and your skin tone.

 

[dicko]

You are seriously dumb aren't you dicko.
Are you even

Wonderful dynamic you want-
It's really dumb-

Do you not have older mentors retired from legacy type airlines? Have you not heard how crap their life was crossing all those time zones at their age bc they effectively HAD to?

Wake up moron. One pay rate. Period-

Ahh. You edited your post to add some ... emotional stuff that defies logic.

So, which one of these SWA FOs and Captains will "have to" fly these wide bodies Wave ? You've spent thousands of words telling us how much SWA pilots make.

Will the poverty stricken CA making $280K a year on a 737, be forced to fly to Europe to feed his starving kids ? Or perhaps the 5th year FO will be forced out of his $180K job into a wide body ?

If your base pay on the 737 is acceptable, how could these people be forced to do anything ?

Fail.