SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[humveedriver]

It's truly pathetic how many people feel so little of themselves and their careers that they're willing to surrender everything they've earned because of the most minute risk. You can justify it in your own mind all you want by talking of "life experience" and the hordes of kids that you have to take care of, but it's really just cowardice. But tell yourself whatever you need to to make yourself sleep better at night.

Whatever man. We all grow up some time. Some just take longer than others.

 

[SWA Bubba]

We'll see what the DRC brings. Not holding my breath tho.

At least my conscience is clear and I don't feel the need to rationalize my cowardly vote.

I think you're missing the point. You don't think those people believe their conscience is just as clear as you do yours? You don't think that everyone on the other side of the argument isn't exactly as sure of the validity and righteousness of their point as you? You can keep bitching all you want, but all you're doing is trying to make yourself feel better. The only impression you're making on the other side is NOT that they believe you, or that they secretly know but won't admit what you keep repeating; it only reaffirms in their mind what an "angry, deluded" individual, who's "in denial," that you are. I can't believe that you don't get that.

While there may be some cosmic judge who will one day tell people who was right and who was wrong, it certainly ain't you or them. Unless some sort of "smoking gun" appears for one side or the other (probably not likely), nobody is ever going to change their mind about their point of view here. Ever. But keep bitching about it; maybe it's cathartic for you, and you can get over being so angry. Maybe it'll help you be a little happier (and perhaps even live longer) with less stress.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

You can keep bitching all you want, but all you're doing is trying to make yourself feel better.

Frankly, bitching about it is cathartic, so it does have some value in itself. I don't expect to convince any of the SWA pilots that we were right and you were wrong about the integration, so it's certainly not about that.

 

[madjack]

No right or wrong, it was a business deal...bounded by signed contracts that were adhered to...

 

[waveflyer]

So what's it about for you PCL?

 

[PCL_128]

So what's it about for you PCL?

I only post here to refute lies, typically from you or from Max. When lies go unchallenged, they have a tendency to become thought of as truths.

 

[-9Capt]

No right or wrong, it was a business deal...bounded by signed contracts that were adhered to...

...which included threats and ultimatums which were clearly unethical and resulted in a lop-sided integration that will result in long lasting resentment and animosity...

 

[waveflyer]

I only post here to refute lies, typically from you or from Max. When lies go unchallenged, they have a tendency to become thought of as truths.

Name a "lie" from me

Please remind

 

[waveflyer]

...which included threats and ultimatums which were clearly unethical and resulted in a lop-sided integration that will result in long lasting resentment and animosity...

You have your choices- and it certainly was lopsided- against junior SWA FOs

 

[PCL_128]

Name a "lie" from me

Please remind

Let's start with your claim that the MEC was intentionally delaying the vote on the first deal.

 

[PCL_128]

You have your choices- and it certainly was lopsided- against junior SWA FOs

Another lie. Junior SWA FOs gained relative seniority.

 

[-9Capt]

You have your choices- and it certainly was lopsided- against junior SWA FOs

...and 20 yr captains at AirTran will be downgraded to FO. Yeah, you're right, the junior RSW FOs were screwed over. Get a grip man.


I will once again refer you to my signature line below.

| | |
VVV

 

[j41driver]

You guys need your forum back...

Now that's funny.... :-D

 

[-9Capt]

You have your choices- and it certainly was lopsided- against junior SWA FOs

How many AirTran pilots were stapled below them? I forget?

 

[madjack]

How was it unethical for the company to involve itself in the negotiations of the most influential (and expensive) labor group? As a share holder you would be pleased that a negotiated settlement was reached...

 

[redflyer65]

Gary involved himself in the integration because he brought the checkbook, plain and simple.

Would he pay SW rates to AirTran immediately or later? That was his decision and his alone. ALPA and/or SWAPA had no input on that.

In what world did an AirTran pilot job equal the same job at Southwest? There was no way RS or DOH was even a possibility. It's done and over guys. Move on, or not. You can rant and rave for years, but it won't change the agreement, or the guys mind beside you.

 

[madjack]

In this catharsis, I would go one step further and say the jobs are equal, but the advantage always was on the side of the pilots from the acquiring side, I think the AAI MC got that...that is only "fair" after all...during the next acq...if there is one you will be on the winning side...

 

[waveflyer]

Another lie. Junior SWA FOs gained relative seniority.

Gained? You're the one lying on that. I will retire at a lower number and same percentile as before- and I'm relatively young

And further I should gain and didn't -that's the problem- acquiring carrier. Years longer to get the job for most. MUCH superior contract and much superior working conditions-

Look PCL- I know you're influence and your opinion cost your air tran peers thousands upon thousands of dollars, so you need to justify that to cover your arse for lack of judgment, but air tran pilots gained tangible things from being bought and had to give up RELATIVE seniority and nothing else-
SWA pilots literally gained nothing except further stagnation

PCL, answer me this- what can I put into my accounts as a result of this purchase?

 

[PCL_128]

Gained? You're the one lying on that. I will retire at a lower number and same percentile as before- and I'm relatively young

I don't care where you'll retire. Trying to project such a thing is impossible, because it's too far out and too many things can change. That's why arbitrators generally don't look beyond five years. What matters is now, and you gained relative seniority at the expense of the AirTran pilots. A windfall at the expense of someone else. Exactly what arbitrators always seek to avoid, which is why you wanted to avoid arbitrators.

PCL, answer me this- what can I put into my accounts as a result of this purchase?

There's your problem. You have an entitlement mindset. You weren't entitled to gain anything. You were entitled to maintain what you had, or something close. That's it.

 

[madjack]

Arbitration is what our CEO wanted to avoid...and he did...the AAI side felt it would do better at arbitration than at the negotiating table...it may have, but going head to head with an actively involved management was, in hindsight, a bad idea when your side had vulnerabilities (an unwanted airframe)...he quite simply did not need all your assets to get what he needed...