SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[humveedriver]

Something else to consider. NWA made sure through the TPG corporation that AirTran did not acquire Midwest. The same can't be said about Delta's reaction to SWA buying AirTran. In fact they seemed to accept SWA's entrance into their fortress almost in stride. 6 months after the deal is inked Delta is acquiring 88 of their former competitors aircraft and business articles are being written about a smaller SWA operation in ATL. Black helicopters? Hardly. Just business as usual amongst the big players.

 

[redflyer65]

It's what he had to say to get approval from the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition and Consumer Rights. Of course 6 ticket price increases later, I'm not sure how well the subcommittee did their job. Not disagreeing with you on your point SWA/FO.

I think unless it's a blatant monolopy on some route structure, they pretty much rubber stap it.

I believe Delta said no major changes would happen either. Look how they are decimating Memphis. In the end, it's a business decision.

 

[humveedriver]

I think unless it's a blatant monolopy on some route structure, they pretty much rubber stap it.

I believe Delta said no major changes would happen either. Look how they are decimating Memphis. In the end, it's a business decision.

The rules do seen to have changed after 9/11. Continental/NWA and Usair/United may have been better partners. Now it seems as if consolidation is just expected. I'm not clear how the rule makers can say no, even to low cost carriers, where ticket price is going to be factor (assuming most majors charge about the same). But the issue of job loss was important point discussed at the miluakee hearing.

 

[humveedriver]

Delta built CVG up and now it's a ghost town. So, you can't say looking at that merger that the acquirer reduced capacity in acquired airports alone.I think it's a good discussion though, the landscape is changing.

 

[SWA/FO]

It's what he had to say to get approval from the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition and Consumer Rights. Of course 6 ticket price increases later, I'm not sure how well the subcommittee did their job. Not disagreeing with you on your point SWA/FO.

No doubt, he was playing a game. Gave Bob and BOD his word that he would take all employees etc....

But then the AT MEC gave him his chance to consider a plan B. Perfect! Gary is just a CEO trying to run a company and the big bad UNION is trying to ruin it all - scapegoat.

However, Gary lying to the AT Pilot group probably saved a lot of jobs. That and the way the AT Pilot group reacted to his message, got the job done. My guess is plan C would have been ugly for AT guys. Love him or hate him, he got what he wanted, at "others" expense. So if you think about it like that, do you hate the guy or thank him for doing what he did???

 

[humveedriver]

No doubt, he was playing a game. Gave Bob and BOD his word that he would take all employees etc....

But then the AT MEC gave him his chance to consider a plan B. Perfect! Gary is just a CEO trying to run a company and the big bad UNION is trying to ruin it all - scapegoat.

However, Gary lying to the AT Pilot group probably saved a lot of jobs. That and the way the AT Pilot group reacted to his message, got the job done. My guess is plan C would have been ugly for AT guys. Love him or hate him, he got what he wanted, at "others" expense. So if you think about it like that, do you hate the guy or thank him for doing what he did???

I think 86 percent of both pilot groups figured the amount of special attention that was going to be allotted to dealing with pilot integration issues was coming to a close. So I agree plan C was not going to be good for either pilot group. I hope he knows what he is doing and that his plan works. In about 10 years I'll know if I should thank him. I'm along for the ride either way.

 

[climbhappy]

I think 86 percent of both pilot groups figured the amount of special attention that was going to be allotted to dealing with pilot integration issues was coming to a close. So I agree plan C was not going to be good for either pilot group. I hope he knows what he is doing and that his plan works. In about 10 years I'll know if I should thank him. I'm along for the ride either way.

I know there's more to it like QOL, but when you can make 175,000 as a FO after a few years...i'd like to think he'd get a thank you. if I worked there i'd thank him...getting yanked around from base to base just comes with the territory...nothing good ever stays the same in the airline biz anyway..

 

[humveedriver]

I know there's more to it like QOL, but when you can make 175,000 as a FO after a few years...i'd like to think he'd get a thank you. if I worked there i'd thank him...getting yanked around from base to base just comes with the territory...nothing good ever stays the same in the airline biz anyway..

That would counting eggs before they are hatched. Don't know that any of us will be making historical SWA pay. If I worked at Miami Air or a regional/commuter of course I would be happy with the proposition. You see some things sound good in theory and then when reality strikes, its not always what you planned on. But if I apply you idea that nothing good ever stays the same, then I guess I'm screwed.

 

[Full of LUV]

Something else to consider. NWA made sure through the TPG corporation that AirTran did not acquire Midwest. The same can't be said about Delta's reaction to SWA buying AirTran. In fact they seemed to accept SWA's entrance into their fortress almost in stride. 6 months after the deal is inked Delta is acquiring 88 of their former competitors aircraft and business articles are being written about a smaller SWA operation in ATL. Black helicopters? Hardly. Just business as usual amongst the big players.

Different.... Airtran would have been damaging to NWA, where Midwest was reasonably small and expensive. Airtran was already in Delta's parking lot destroying yields to any market that would "compete" on. SWA was viewed as a forgone conclusion in ATL by Delta, taking out Airtran in the process actually was probably BETTER for Delta than having SWA war it out with Airtran in ATL.

 

[Full of LUV]

Last night while watching the hockey game with the old lady, it dawned on me.
This is what I understand: The AirTran guys are mad at Gary for lying to them or threatening them with their job, and every Tranny lost 32% seniority, their seat, their base, their airplane, their Wives blah blah blah etc….
Little do you guys (PCL and gang) realize, there is a double edged sword here. Because, if Gary was truthful, you know if he had told SWAPA and ALPA what he really wanted to do with your 717s. Then under law there wouldn’t have been any requirement to combine the Pilot group. This would have been a difference of an added 68% of lost seniority or 100% lost in seniority.
Nobody would be crying about lost seniority, they would be crying about a lost job. Other than being bought, Gary did you guys a huge favor by withholding that info. So as you see Gary didn’t tell the truth to us either. Don’t you think SWAPA would have loved to have that info? Staple at best, if anything… maybe a hiring pool. Now the message was delivered by Gary Kelly to your Pilot group because – HE KNEW ALL THE FACTS…. Plus your Group was spoon feeding you essentially what you wanted to hear.
Now you guys have the benefits of working for a carrier that has never furloughed and tells you they plan no furloughs. We are a FAT Pilot group; everybody (minus the top 10%) is making less money and it sucks…. But better times are ahead.

Actually a very good point that should give Gary some street cred with AT ALPA group...... but probably won't

 

[humveedriver]

Different.... Airtran would have been damaging to NWA, where Midwest was reasonably small and expensive. Airtran was already in Delta's parking lot destroying yields to any market that would "compete" on. SWA was viewed as a forgone conclusion in ATL by Delta, taking out Airtran in the process actually was probably BETTER for Delta than having SWA war it out with Airtran in ATL.

What made SWA a foregone conclusion in ATL? Their political influence with the city? I think building up BNA stand alone had about an equal chance as SWA taking a shot at ATL and AT.

 

[PCL_128]

SWA/FO, your knowledge of the law leaves much to be desired. In order to avoid the requirement to merge the pilot groups under MB, he would have had to have an acquisition deal with AirTran that included not taking the 717s, which obviously never would have happened, since it wouldn't have made sense to the AirTran shareholders. Once the transaction closed and SWA owned the 717s, he couldn't simply change his mind and decide to not merge operations. That's not how the law is written.

 

[madjack]

Thx perry mason

 

[scoreboardII]

Once the transaction closed and SWA owned the 717s, he couldn't simply change his mind and decide to not merge operations. That's not how the law is written.

But he could have outright divested them (you) with the jets per the law.

My take on this is Gary knew 100% the 717 jets would be going, just not when, and therefore not on paper. The deltoids played him as long as they could for the best deal they could and then it materialized. End of story, no secrets other than a deals not a deal till its on paper.

I'm confident this will bear true in light of whatever legal process develops. An employee cannot dictate nor expect an employer to consult the employee about their management of the airline.

 

[waveflyer]

Ya'll still talking about this?

I suggest counseling