SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[Phlintstone]

717CAPT, I wholeheartedly agree. The lack of direction and leadership from the MEC chair is one of the main contribution factors to this fiasco. With no leadership, people tend to get what they can for themselves and fail to look at the big picture.

The MC and NC did the best they could under the circumstances and I too thank them for their time and effort, but Max, quit trying to play yourself off as the hero. As someone recently wrote to you on the ALPA forum, get a life...

Phred

 

[PCL_128]

Hey PCL, post the threatening letter....

Sorry, I didn't save a copy.

 

[JT12345]

This is so simple.

AAI was out numbered 3 to 1 and Gary Kelly did what was best for the majority. In war the side with greater numbers usually wins.

I thought this might me different with the whole SWA culture thing. That even though we were smaller that the majority would step up, and bring us in differently. Different than American/TWA or USAir/AWA, but it was not.

The reason why there was so much uncertain whether there were threats to our jobs was Southwest management. There was nothing in writing till after the vote on SLI1. Just rumors. They could have made the threats much more clear directly to the AAI if they wanted to. I simple letter like the one put out after the first vote would have nullified Antony's lies or should I say perceptions about the threats made on July 14th. Till this day the only explanation for me why SWA management did not put out a letter was because they did not want the first deal SLI1 to pass.

I can't believe you losers are still going on with this for 50 pages.

 

[redflyer65]

Straight up, the MC thought the list was not good, but that the big ATL fence, Captain Retention slot program, guaranteed pay raise on 4/1/12, guaranteed integration, and the fact that many SWA pilots were going to retire before the fences dropped was worthy of a vote. The MEC thought otherwise. Let me go see if I can dig up Gary Kelly's August 22, 2011 message that caused Lear70 to crap his pants.

That kind of puts it all in perspective. Thanks Max.

 

[SWA/FO]

PCL no college, no type rating and bitches that he is being treated unfair. Sounds like one lucky SOB to me. Now free Obama money is great, but this is not to shabby either. A job with the best airline in the business. An airline that has never furloughed a Pilot?

 

[canyonblue]

I thought this might me different with the whole SWA culture thing. That even though we were smaller that the majority would step up, and bring us in differently. Different than American/TWA or USAir/AWA, but it was not.

What, pray tell, would you have preferred? Keep in mind you would have to satisfy 6000 people who worked their a$$es off to get where they were at SWA. Throw in a Type rating, 1000 PIC turbine and the club gets a little exclusive.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I thought this might me different with the whole SWA culture thing. That even though we were smaller that the majority would step up, and bring us in differently. Different than American/TWA or USAir/AWA, but it was not.

This type of quote really baffles me. Maybe I am narrow minded, but how would you expect SWAPA to negotiate culture? Hey guys, common over...do you guys want relative with fences or we could just do DOH?

It was SWAPA's job to get the best deal for it's pilots, just like it was ALPA's job to do the best for it's group.

Many of you keep mixing culture with the SLI and I don't see how they relate.

Anyways, the deal is the deal. Like it or not we will all be wearing the same ID's and trying to make it to retirement with a small stack of coins. See ya'll on the line....

 

[dicko]

I don't know if this is the right time or place, but this investigation made me pause and reflect on how lucky we are in many ways.

I present to you ..... Life as a pilot at Ryanair. Part 1.

http://reporter.kro.nl/seizoenen/20.../extras/mayday_mayday_-_international_version

Part 2.

http://reporter.kro.nl/seizoenen/20...extras/mayday_mayday_part_2_-_english_version

I'm glad to say that I've never had to face a management group that created a competitive list of pilots fuel use.

 

[maxblast72]

See max right there is the problem. The MC went to Dallas (prematurely in my opinion. First the NC should have gone out and negotiated a joint cba and after that was ratified by both groups, then you start talking about sli) anyway, the mc went to Dallas, brought back an agreement, the MEC voted no and then you guys went off the reservation.

We would have loved to split this baby into 2 separate track, SLI and CBA, but SWA management would even entertain that idea. In their minds, it was one big puzzle that had to be solved with one package. We could have 13a'd them, but that had it's own risks.

By your actions and posts on forums and in the crew room, you created animosity and a further division amongst the AirTran pilots. I realize that the agreement was your baby and that you guys worked hard for about a year and a half being away from family and friends, but not you, nor Frank nor Tim or Jack were part of the MEC.

The Merger Committee was basically a committee picked by the MEC (or at least the chairman who then picks his committee). The Merger Committee got aggressive with communication right after AIP #1 was signed due to the MEC leaking misinformation almost immediately after our conference call on July 17th.

The MEC decided what they thought was the appropriate course of action and the mc derailed the entire process because of your personal feelings and needs. Your still doing it. See all that does is make it look like you were not really interested in doing anything for the AirTran pilot group but were only in it for yourself.

If the MEC was going to vote down SIA #1, they should have had the balls to fire the MC as well. Not sure what you mean by own personal needs. My wife and I do fine and live off less than 60% of what we make at AirTran. The Merger Committee wanted 30 days of roadshows to fully explain what we were looking at and why we did what we did. If 50.1% of the pilots said not good enough, we were ready to continue negotiating further or go to arbitration. I am still debating SLI on here for practice and to learn different angles as I am sure the lawyers will be doing when I get deposed for the DFR lawsuit.

What you guys should have done after the no vote, was get together with the mec and come up with a strategy as to what's next. But no. You ran with it causing pilots to start a facebook page. Sending e-mails to sw begging for jobs, infighting and recalls and the end result is what we have now.

The MC actually held a few Friday roadshows at Pascals trying to calm everyone down and tell them arbitration would be OK. However, after Gary Kelly's email on Aug 22nd, that was easier said than done. Even Lear70 was crapping his pants post Aug 22nd.

I can only imagine what sw and swapa, as well as our fellow pilots at other airlines were thinking when all this went down. You volunteered to be on the mc. Gave up a portion of your life spent in negotiations, hotel rooms, flights going back and forth between ATL, Dallas and Washington and everything else that goes into it, and for that I thank you for your time. But give it a rest man.

I won't rest until the DFR case is over. Reading this thread is voluntary.

Oh and by the way. Please don't send me any more personal messages talking about anger issues and the like. I'm not interested. Good day.

Go ahead and post the actual message I sent you. You have my permission.

 

[scoreboardII]

Sorry, I didn't save a copy.

So you don't have a copy of the letter you are introducing as evidence, right...

 

[SWA/FO]

Even Lear70 was crapping his pants post Aug 22nd.

This is hard to believe.... Lear is so calm and cool under pressure.

 

[maxblast72]

So you don't have a copy of the letter you are introducing as evidence, right...

PCL128 probably too busy making documents "disappear" right now

 

[maxblast72]

This is hard to believe.... Lear is so calm and cool under pressure.

You should have read the email he sent the MC that week. Pretty funny to see the toughest guy in the room on August 17th crapping his pants just 5 days later

 

[FIREMAN]

PCL no college, no type rating and bitches that he is being treated unfair. Sounds like one lucky SOB to me. Now free Obama money is great, but this is not to shabby either. A job with the best airline in the business. An airline that has never furloughed a Pilot?

I have a masters, 737 type, 5000 73 hours, and 12 years at AT. Should I feel like a lucky SOB? I lost my A/C, my seat ,my base, 32% seniority and at least a 20% pay cut.

And by the way. My father was at Eastern from the 50s untile the 90s there was a time he thought the same as you do about SWA.

 

[Phlintstone]

You should have read the email he sent the MC that week. Pretty funny to see the toughest guy in the room on August 17th crapping his pants just 5 days later

A guy voicing his concerns about the fate of his career, income and home is NEVER funny. That just shows you have no class.

Phred.

 

[PCL_128]

So you don't have a copy of the letter you are introducing as evidence, right...

Evidence? I didn't realize that this was a court room.

 

[maxblast72]

A guy voicing his concerns about the fate of his career, income and home is NEVER funny. That just shows you have no class.

Phred.

There should have been no concern Phred. The Group B4 EVP said Gary was bluffing. Who do you believe, the chair of the MC or the Group B4 EVP? I thought you were on the EVPs side?

 

[scoreboardII]

Evidence? I didn't realize that this was a court room.

If you make a claim, back it up, right now this mythical unicorn of a letter from GK doesn't exist.

 

[FlyinGuy]

I have a masters, 737 type, 5000 73 hours, and 12 years at AT. Should I feel like a lucky SOB? I lost my A/C, my seat ,my base, 32% seniority and at least a 20% pay cut.

And by the way. My father was at Eastern from the 50s untile the 90s there was a time he thought the same as you do about SWA.

20% pay cut? Man, I wish AT bought SWA and we could have gotten a 20% raise!!!

 

[Cometman]

Sorry, I didn't save a copy.

Something this important and you did not save a copy? I find it hard to believe that if there was a letter like you say there was that you would not have a copy. Now, if you do not have a copy I am sure you can get a copy and post it. After all you are associated with ALPA. Put up or shut up.

 

[SWA/FO]

I have a masters, 737 type, 5000 73 hours, and 12 years at AT. Should I feel like a lucky SOB? I lost my A/C, my seat ,my base, 32% seniority and at least a 20% pay cut.

Yeah, you should feel lucky. You didn't have to come over to SWA right away... you could have stayed until the end. Then you would only be experiencing the paycut in 2015, you know when you come over to Southwest and get on our payscale.

You probably have a 20% paycut, because you don't know how to bid or pick up.

 

[SWA/FO]

You should have read the email he sent the MC that week. Pretty funny to see the toughest guy in the room on August 17th crapping his pants just 5 days later

I'd love to see it!!

 

[FIREMAN]

Yeah, you should feel lucky. You didn't have to come over to SWA right away... you could have stayed until the end. Then you would only be experiencing the paycut in 2015, you know when you come over to Southwest and get on our payscale.

You probably have a 20% paycut, because you don't know how to bid or pick up.

I haven't come over yet. I will be forced over around this time next year. Evan if I was going to get a 20% pay raise that would not make up the other losses.

 

[Phlintstone]

There should have been no concern Phred. The Group B4 EVP said Gary was bluffing. Who do you believe, the chair of the MC or the Group B4 EVP? I thought you were on the EVPs side?

I am not on anyone's side.

While I personally do not like B4 EVP(mainly due to his political affliation and his "ALPA can do no wrong" slant). He has always worked hard on behalf of his fellow pilots. I respect that. I also respect that he does not belittle those that have a differing opinion...at least not that I have witnessesed. I also thought he was wrong in his utter confidence that GK was bluffing. The B4 EVP was VERY confident and there is no way he could be that sure. Only GK could be and was not going to tell.

What does get me fired up is the fact that there was so much conflicting information about the SLI that it was hard to determine what was fact and what was opinion, what was said, when and EVEN who said it. The blame for that is square on LH, the MEC, and the entire MC/NC. You guys were one eff'd up, dysfunctional bunch. Now you come back on here and want to bring it all up again and act like you were the pillar of truth in the mess. You may have been - I don't know but the issue is dead.

Another thing that gets me is that you think it is funny that Lear was concerned about his livelyhood. Look, perception is reality and if Lear had the perception that his career just went down the toilet it was real in his mind. Think about if you just found out that your career was over, say a drinking issue that made national news. Think about how you would feel. There is NOTHING funny about that feeling and yet you think it is... just classless behavior IMO.

Sorry, rant over...

Phred

 

[EngineThunder]

Someone with an impressive background of high school diploma and Gulfstream graduate got completely schooled, embarrassed, and outplayed by a Fortune 200 CEO. Who would have seen that coming?

 

[SWA/FO]

I haven't come over yet. I will be forced over around this time next year. Evan if I was going to get a 20% pay raise that would not make up the other losses.

I still think you have got it made. You have 9 bases to choose from as far as living in a base. Your QOL will go up on SWA side. You have to live it before you bash it.

 

[FIREMAN]

I still think you have got it made. You have 9 bases to choose from as far as living in a base. Your QOL will go up on SWA side. You have to live it before you bash it.

I have not bashed QLA in any post. My anguish is the way we were treated by a company that touts the golden rule and everything else they claim to hold dear. I know you guys refuse to accept that our jobs were threatened. Whether it was a bluff or real it, happened. Now they are changing a major factor that was instrumental in how we did our transition bid. Then expect us to say oh well.

 

[SWA/FO]

I have not bashed QLA in any post. My anguish is the way we were treated by a company that touts the golden rule and everything else they claim to hold dear. I know you guys refuse to accept that our jobs were threatened. Whether it was a bluff or real it, happened. Now they are changing a major factor that was instrumental in how we did our transition bid. Then expect us to say oh well.

You now have the benefit of Gary fighting for you. Now that we are on the same side. I just brought up this 717 thing the other day and was told ALPA allowed only one bid. Seems fair to me, the rules change you should be allowed to bid. But your union will not allow this.

Southwest always changes their minds.....far from perfect. But still a great job.

 

[FlyinGuy]

There is that "Golden Rule" being tossed around again.

Common over guys. It is gonna be great. Just tell us what you want and we will give it to you because living by the golden rule means we give everyone what they want!!!

 

[FIREMAN]

There is that "Golden Rule" being tossed around again.

Common over guys. It is gonna be great. Just tell us what you want and we will give it to you because living by the golden rule means we give everyone what they want!!!

So threatening people with their job is within the realm of the golden rule?
Did not and do not expect to get everything I want. Did expect SWA to follow the PA without threats.