SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[slaquer5]

credit where credit is due.
zing!

I give PCL alot of credit. He smart, gives 100%, and is passionate with his union work.

I just wish he would stop the hate, and give SWA a chance. He might actually like it here

 

[canyonblue]

I give PCL alot of credit. He smart, gives 100%, and is passionate with his union work.

......two out of three ain't bad.

-Meat Loaf 1977

 

[Kharma Police]

I give PCL alot of credit. He smart, gives 100%, and is passionate with his union work.

I just wish he would stop the hate, and give SWA a chance. He might actually like it here

You're a nice guy, I enjoy your posts but you give "him" too much credit. He is a self serving opportunist, I trust him about as much as I would trust our former management.

 

[Britpilot]

You're a nice guy, I enjoy your posts but you give "him" too much credit. He is a self serving opportunist, I trust him about as much as I would trust our former management.

Yup.......

 

[FIREMAN]

Anyone have any guesses on who authored this one:

-----------------------------------------
Keith, it's not about scaring people; it's about giving people all of the facts rather than just letting the angry forum posters control the dialogue. There are tough decisions to be made here. Tough decisions were made at NMB headquarters the night that the TA was reached. People need to think things through logically rather than emotionally. If you think that putting the likely negative outcomes out there for consideration by the pilots is "fear mongering," then you're welcome to your opinion. I, on the other hand, believe that it would be grossly irresponsible of this union to not put that information out there. The pilots will make the ultimate decision, but they should do so with all of the facts and knowing all of the potential outcomes.

The key to this email is the authors belief that a negative outcome was likely. That is a matter of option not fact. Others believed it a negotiating ploy. We will never know which because the AT pilots folded like a K-Mart lawn chair.

 

[PCL_128]

I give PCL alot of credit. He smart, gives 100%, and is passionate with his union work.

I just wish he would stop the hate, and give SWA a chance. He might actually like it here

I wanted to give SWA a chance, slaquer5. Despite the claims by some, I didn't "hate" SWA prior to this mess. When the merger was announced, I certainly wasn't thrilled, but I wasn't upset by it, either. I saw it as an opportunity for our pilots to be a part of a bigger carrier with more possibilities for expansion into international markets. I was willing to "give SWA a chance." And I held onto that opinion all the way through the SLI negotiations, even when things started to look bad. It wasn't until Gary put out the threatening letter that my opinion started to swing, and then the blatant lies told to us about the 717s staying until their lease expiration was the straw that broke the camel's back. As far as I'm concerned, I gave SWA a chance and SWA spit in my face in return.

But thank you for the compliments.

 

[PCL_128]

max, if that's an email rather than a forum post, you probably shouldn't be posting it. I'm not sure who the author is (although I could probably guess), but I would imagine that he wouldn't appreciate having his private emails intended for a small audience posted publicly on FI. Once again, you demonstrate having no class.

 

[maxblast72]

max, if that's an email rather than a forum post, you probably shouldn't be posting it. I'm not sure who the author is (although I could probably guess), but I would imagine that he wouldn't appreciate having his private emails intended for a small audience posted publicly on FI. Once again, you demonstrate having no class.

The following quote (copied from my previous post) is not from a private email but rather a AirTran forum post made by the current ALPA Group B3 EVP. I wonder if the ALPA lawyers will like seeing all his forum posts in the discovery depositions

------------------------------
Keith, it's not about scaring people; it's about giving people all of the facts rather than just letting the angry forum posters control the dialogue. There are tough decisions to be made here. Tough decisions were made at NMB headquarters the night that the TA was reached. People need to think things through logically rather than emotionally. If you think that putting the likely negative outcomes out there for consideration by the pilots is "fear mongering," then you're welcome to your opinion. I, on the other hand, believe that it would be grossly irresponsible of this union to not put that information out there. The pilots will make the ultimate decision, but they should do so with all of the facts and knowing all of the potential outcomes.

 

[PCL_128]

The following quote (copied from my previous post) is not from a private email but rather a AirTran forum post made by the current ALPA Group B3 EVP.

I sort of doubt that, seeing as how the current ALPA Group B3 EVP is an ExpressJet pilot.

 

[redflyer65]

PCL,

Did the MEC not give the MC enough guidance in what they expected? Was the MEC never briefed about where that negotiations were headed?

These are the questions that I wonder how much the MEC was in control of their side of the process. Must of been some massive disconnect.

 

[Phlintstone]

PCL,

Did the MEC not give the MC enough guidance in what they expected? Was the MEC never briefed about where that negotiations were headed?

These are the questions that I wonder how much the MEC was in control of their side of the process. Must of been some massive disconnect.

Massive disconnect is an understatement. IMO, there was NO direction given to the MC. I was flying with an MEC member when the news broke. Lets just say that the MEC member was learning of the details of SL9 (SLI-1) from other line pilots. LH or other MEC members would not return calls. You want to talk about a frustrated individual!

Phred

 

[GoodTimes]

"As far as I'm concerned, I gave SWA a chance and SWA spit in my face in return."

Maybe thats exactly how SWA felt after SLI-1

 

[scoreboardII]

I wanted to give SWA a chance, slaquer5. Despite the claims by some, I didn't "hate" SWA prior to this mess. When the merger was announced, I certainly wasn't thrilled, but I wasn't upset by it, either. I saw it as an opportunity for our pilots to be a part of a bigger carrier with more possibilities for expansion into international markets. I was willing to "give SWA a chance." And I held onto that opinion all the way through the SLI negotiations, even when things started to look bad. It wasn't until Gary put out the threatening letter that my opinion started to swing, and then the blatant lies told to us about the 717s staying until their lease expiration was the straw that broke the camel's back. As far as I'm concerned, I gave SWA a chance and SWA spit in my face in return.

But thank you for the compliments.

please post a link to this threatening letter, for all to see and judge.

 

[Sy-bill]

please post a link to this threatening letter, for all to see and judge.

Not too long ago another asked for this letter from Lear 70. He just danced around giving reasons of why it couldn't be produced.

I personally would have had this letter ready to show.

 

[dicko]

Man....gross...Lets stick to the SLI arguments...ok!!!

Well played sir. I walked right into that one.

 

[maxblast72]

I sort of doubt that, seeing as how the current ALPA Group B3 EVP is an ExpressJet pilot.

Good call. I had to double check my ALPA structure. It appears the above quote was written by none other the Group B4 EVP himself. Do you happen to know if the Group B4 EVP is going to man up and race his Jaguar against my wife's BMW?

 

[maxblast72]

I was flying with an MEC member when the news broke. Lets just say that the MEC member was learning of the details of SL9 (SLI-1) from other line pilots.

Phred

Phred, that MEC person you were flying with didn't mention the MEC conference call the MC initiated around 2-3pm on July 16th, 2011? You know the one where the MC Vice Chair got 7-1 approval by voice vote to sign AIP #1 if we got the Captain Retention Slot program and Atlanta fence to September 27th, 2020 (10 years from Merger Announcement Date)? I guess the MEC member you were flying with a short memory. They were fully briefed.

 

[SWA/FO]

I may only have a HS diploma, but at least my high school did a better job of teaching basic grammar than your college did.

WHAT! Not even a 4 year degree or 737 type rating? I'd be counting my lucky stars if I was you. You have a job thousands want and they should have it.... before you.

You never really "considered or wanted SWA" becuase they would NEVER have called you. You should be thanking Gary, not slaming him.

 

[PCL_128]

"As far as I'm concerned, I gave SWA a chance and SWA spit in my face in return."

Maybe thats exactly how SWA felt after SLI-1

SLI-1 was the first bit of spittle. It was insulting to our pilots.

 

[PCL_128]

Good call. I had to double check my ALPA structure. It appears the above quote was written by none other the Group B4 EVP himself. Do you happen to know if the Group B4 EVP is going to man up and race his Jaguar against my wife's BMW?

You'd have to ask the Group B4 EVP. I'm just an anonymous screen name on an internet forum.

But I would say that a Jaguar is certainly far superior to your little girly BMW.

 

[PCL_128]

WHAT! Not even a 4 year degree or 737 type rating? I'd be counting my lucky stars if I was you. You have a job thousands want and they should have it.... before you.

You never really "considered or wanted SWA" becuase they would NEVER have called you. You should be thanking Gary, not slaming him.

Slaming? Pretty sure that's not a word. There's more of that college superiority shining through.

 

[GoodTimes]

"SLI-1 was the first bit of spittle. It was insulting to our pilots."

It was insulting to ours, as well.

 

[canyonblue]

SLI-1 was the first bit of spittle. It was insulting to our pilots.

You were either unrealistic, or clueless. Either way, I can't believe you held any position within ALPA. It doesn't exactly make your pilot group look like a well informed or knowledgeable bunch. You feel that Gary schooled you, I can see why.

 

[scoreboardII]

Hey PCL, post the threatening letter....

 

[jonjuan]

WHAT! Not even a 4 year degree or 737 type rating? I'd be counting my lucky stars if I was you. You have a job thousands want and they should have it.... before you.

You never really "considered or wanted SWA" becuase they would NEVER have called you. You should be thanking Gary, not slaming him.

I personally think it's hilarious that one of the top ALPA generals will soon be #1 on the swapa list.

 

[SWAdude]

Hey PCL, post the threatening letter....

I was under the impression that there is no phantom letter.

Repeatedly asked for and always denied.

 

[redflyer65]

SLI-1 was the first bit of spittle. It was insulting to our pilots.

I'm confused. You mean the first deal that you guys worked hard to get and were fully briefed on? But when made public, you had to show 'outrage' to save face?

RF

 

[maxblast72]

I'm confused. You mean the first deal that you guys worked hard to get and were fully briefed on? But when made public, you had to show 'outrage' to save face?

RF

To give our esteemed ALPA Group B4 EVP credit, he was not part of the ATN MEC from June 2011 and beyond. I am sure he still had people on the inside he could get info on, but he wasn't part of the negotiations or direction giving by the MEC.

Straight up, the MC thought the list was not good, but that the big ATL fence, Captain Retention slot program, guaranteed pay raise on 4/1/12, guaranteed integration, and the fact that many SWA pilots were going to retire before the fences dropped was worthy of a vote. The MEC thought otherwise. Let me go see if I can dig up Gary Kelly's August 22, 2011 message that caused Lear70 to crap his pants.

 

[maxblast72]

Southwest CEO Kelly responded in the manner he had promised on July 14, 2011, stating, on August 22, 2011, that:

"I was disappointed that ALPA chose to reject the deal. I thought it was very well done and required some give and take on all parts, but it was certainly a very, very generous offer. The economy is in terrible shape and we have alarmingly high fuel costs, so this simply gives us an opportunity to take a step back and take a deep breath and revisit our integration plans going forward.... We've withdrawn our offer, in light of the current economic circumstances. . . . You know, this means that the integration process will continue, but will definitely work at a much slower pace. The whole idea behind that Agreement was to get expedited integration. . . . Ultimately, we're going to do what's in the best interest of our Southwest Airlines culture and our business."

 

[717capt]

Straight up, the MC thought the list was not good, but that the big ATL fence, Captain Retention slot program, guaranteed pay raise on 4/1/12, guaranteed integration, and the fact that many SWA pilots were going to retire before the fences dropped was worthy of a vote. The MEC thought otherwise. Let me go see if I can dig up Gary Kelly's August 22, 2011 message that caused Lear70 to crap his pants.

See max right there is the problem. The MC went to Dallas (prematurely in my opinion. First the NC should have gone out and negotiated a joint cba and after that was ratified by both groups, then you start talking about sli) anyway, the mc went to Dallas, brought back an agreement, the MEC voted no and then you guys went of the reservation. By your actions and posts on forums and in the crew room, you created animosity and a further division amongst the AirTran pilots. I realize that the agreement was your baby and that you guys worked hard for about a year and a half being away from family and friends, but not you, nor Frank nor Tim or Jack were part of the MEC. The MEC decided what they thought was the appropriate course of action and the mc derailed the entire process because of your personal feelings and needs. Your still doing it. See all that does is make it look like you were not really interested in doing anything for the AirTran pilot group but were only in it for yourself. What you guys should have done after the no vote, was get together with the mec and come up with a strategy as to what's next. But no. You ran with it causing pilots to start a facebook page. Sending e-mails to sw begging for jobs, infighting and recalls and the end result is what we have now. I can only imagine what sw and swapa, as well as our fellow pilots at other airlines were thinking when all this went down. You volunteered to be on the mc. Gave up a portion of your life spent in negotiations, hotel rooms, flights going back and forth between ATL, Dallas and Washington and everything else that goes into it, and for that I thank you for your time. But give it a rest man. Oh and by the way. Please don't send me any more personal messages talking about anger issues and the like. I'm not interested. Good day.