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SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

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PCL will be wrong again - then he will slam his employer and be mad.

Hey PCL is it true that you will retire #2 at Southwest (age 65) if you do come over here? (Unless, of course we buy somebody else and they actually get their way)
 
PCL's been wrong, wrong and wrong again these last few years on FI. Now predicting a dour section 6 outcome?

You stay classy, PCL.
 
"Some believe that SWAPA is only trying to delay the process as long as possible because they hope it will enable them to “capture” more captain seats. If this is true, it seems like short-term thinking. Whatever arguments each side has regarding contract interpretation or fairness will be decided by a neutral third-party; but, it is undeniable that walking away from a process specifically designed and agreed by all to resolve disputes will have its own ramifications. For the life of me, I can't understand the point of creating distrust and animosity among a large part of SWAPA's future members—especially in the middle of important Section 6 negotiations. That being said, the question is not if, but when, this complaint will be heard, and the MEC will use all available resources to enforce the provisions of the transition agreement."

What do you guys want?? $$, 737 CP seats in return for 717 CP seats going away?
 
"Some believe that SWAPA is only trying to delay the process as long as possible because they hope it will enable them to “capture” more captain seats."
Click to expand...

Swapa pilots will get all the seats they negotiated for regardless of the timing on the DRC claim. They get all 737 upgrades prior to 2015. That includes upgrades for 717's being replaced by 737's. It really isn't difficult to understand.
 
We're simply tired of beating this dead horse. Not that we agree with you, we're just over the debate on here (at least I am)...

The simple fact is, if the shoe were on the other foot, your pilots would be just as angry and pushing your union just as hard to get back something you had voted on and planned for.

That's really all there is to say. You believe one way. We believe another. And a neutral needs to decide it. Continuing to debate it just drives a wedge further between the pilot groups and I'm done debating. You may post further on the subject, but don't assume our silence gives consent to your thoughts and ideas, it just means we're trying to get along which means avoiding confrontation when it's pointless.

Happy New Year! :beer:
 
Lear70 said:
And a neutral needs to decide it.
Happy New Year! :beer:
Click to expand...
Happy new Year Lear.

And we don't need a "neutral" to decide whats already been overwhelmingly voted on. Thats the reason for the vote, to get buy in from a majority. If we wanted an arbitrator, someone would have voted no.
 
Lear,

S/b is right, a neutral arbitrator will not change any of this...if u really cared about mending fences u wouldn't be going down this road...
 
Lear70 said:
We're simply tired of beating this dead horse. Not that we agree with you, we're just over the debate on here (at least I am)...

The simple fact is, if the shoe were on the other foot, your pilots would be just as angry and pushing your union just as hard to get back something you had voted on and planned for.

That's really all there is to say. You believe one way. We believe another. And a neutral needs to decide it. Continuing to debate it just drives a wedge further between the pilot groups and I'm done debating. You may post further on the subject, but don't assume our silence gives consent to your thoughts and ideas, it just means we're trying to get along which means avoiding confrontation when it's pointless.

Happy New Year! :beer:
Click to expand...
I find it bizarre that someone on the AAI Merger Committee (or whatever it is you guys calls it) doesn't seem to understand how all this works.
 
The people who don't seem to understand how this all works are the people in charge at SWAPA, who seem incapable (or unwilling) of understanding that the Dispute Resolution Agreement facilitates a process for resolving these sorts of disagreements. Instead, they're trying to stonewall, which will ultimately be a fruitless endeavor.
 
PCL_128 said:
The people who don't seem to understand how this all works are the people in charge at SWAPA, who seem incapable (or unwilling) of understanding that the Dispute Resolution Agreement facilitates a process for resolving these sorts of disagreements. Instead, they're trying to stonewall, which will ultimately be a fruitless endeavor.
Click to expand...

Well then explain it PCL. Because the Dispute Resolution Agreement cannot change what has already been agreed to. Nor can an Arbitrator change an agreement which had already been agreed to.

So since you have all the answers why don't you fill us in on how that is possible.
 
LeeRoyJenkins said:
Well then explain it PCL. Because the Dispute Resolution Agreement cannot change what has already been agreed to. Nor can an Arbitrator change an agreement which had already been agreed to.

So since you have all the answers why don't you fill us in on how that is possible.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is claiming that an arbitrator can "change" the agreement. The dispute resolution process, much like a system board of adjustment process, is meant to resolve disagreements in how the agreement is interpreted or applied. I believe the position of the ATN MEC is that the loss of the 717s creates circumstances that were unexpected and weren't contemplated in the language of the SLI agreements. So, they want a neutral to look at it and see how it should be applied. This is the entire reason for having a dispute resolution process. SWAPA shouldn't be so afraid to go forward with the process that they agreed to. But, I guess we're used to them behaving in such a manner by now.
 
PCL_128 said:
I don't think anyone is claiming that an arbitrator can "change" the agreement. The dispute resolution process, much like a system board of adjustment process, is meant to resolve disagreements in how the agreement is interpreted or applied. I believe the position of the ATN MEC is that the loss of the 717s creates circumstances that were unexpected and weren't contemplated in the language of the SLI agreements. So, they want a neutral to look at it and see how it should be applied. This is the entire reason for having a dispute resolution process. SWAPA shouldn't be so afraid to go forward with the process that they agreed to. But, I guess we're used to them behaving in such a manner by now.
Click to expand...

None of us have a problem with this process.

But we do have a problem with you.

I truly hope you are gone as you say you will be. Guys like you are a cancer to a work group. As you are to this site.
 
Ok, what has changed...AAI pilots are now coming over without 717s...SLI was negotiated assuming the pilots came with planes...AAI benefitted (at the expense of RSW pilots)... What more do u want??
 
It's not something to be litigated on a message board. The attorneys and arbitrator will take care of it.
 
PCL_128 said:
The attorneys and arbitrator will take care of it.
Click to expand...

No they wont. There is nothing to take care of. You cannot change what has already been agreed to.

Your pilot group voted for it PCL.

Own it!

You should have voted for the first agreement but the collective arrogance of yourself and the AAI MEC got the best of you.
 
LeeRoyJenkins said:
I find it bizarre that someone on the AAI Merger Committee (or whatever it is you guys calls it) doesn't seem to understand how all this works.
Click to expand...
I know very well how it works, and have even detailed it, straight from the Dispute Resolution Agreement, on this forum in recent months.

However, I'm not going to get into it anymore. It's been hashed out, and it's just not worth the angst.

See ya' on the line, and until then, have fun and fly safe out there. :beer:
 
LeeRoyJenkins said:
No they wont. There is nothing to take care of. You cannot change what has already been agreed to.
Click to expand...

Maybe. I really don't know their legal arguments. Maybe they have a basis, maybe they don't. I think the arbitrator should decide. As the arbitrators should have decided in the first place, avoiding this mess.

You should have voted for the first agreement but the collective arrogance of yourself and the AAI MEC got the best of you.
Click to expand...

I still wouldn't vote for that POS even if Gary literally held a gun to my head.
 
So Southwest is getting rid of many B737/300 maybe the SWA side should file a complaint too! Hell, everyone would laugh their ass off at us if we did, but when the Airtran pilots see a loss of aircraft they flew they think SWAPA is screwing them. What the ******************** is wrong with you jackwagons? It is business. Everyone gets ********************ed at Southwest welcome to the party.
 
I've read the official dispute. It was written in Texan so the Dallas folks would understand it.
It said, " Don't piss on our boots and tell us it's raining".

Happy New Year!

This crap about the merger is getting so old it doesn't even stink anymore.
 
humveedriver said:
I've read the official dispute. It was written in Texan so the Dallas folks would understand it.
It said, " Don't piss on our boots and tell us it's raining".

Happy New Year!

This crap about the merger is getting so old it doesn't even stink anymore.
Click to expand...
No... you're just becoming acclimated to the smell. ;)
 
PCL_128 said:
The people who don't seem to understand how this all works are the people in charge at SWAPA, who seem incapable (or unwilling) of understanding that the Dispute Resolution Agreement facilitates a process for resolving these sorts of disagreements. Instead, they're trying to stonewall, which will ultimately be a fruitless endeavor.
Click to expand...
$20 to your charity of choice that you are wrong, the arbitrator will not change the SLI, per the SLI and DR agreements.
 
madjack said:
Lear,

S/b is right, a neutral arbitrator will not change any of this...if u really cared about mending fences u wouldn't be going down this road...
Click to expand...

Total BS...... A neutral will decide what is fair, and some of you are afraid of that. An explanation is always provided in any award, btw. Just sit back and let it happen. It may go exactly how you think, or it may not.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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