SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[Dude]

All of these threads are bull$hit. Many on our side had unrealistic expectations just like the other side. There are a few simple facts that go completely ignored, mostly because no one wants to take ownership and be accountable for their wants that far exceeded reality.

-SWA pilots weren't going to get a full staple.
-AirTran pilots were giddy as anyone would have been until they figured the process wouldn't happen at the speed of heat.
-Some SWA guys refuse to see the deal they got - very good considering where it could have gone.
-AirTran guys will never know if they got a "good deal" or not. Why? Because there is no way to know what their careers at AT would have been absent the purchase.
----Had AT not done well...they got a great deal.
----Had AT rebounded and kicked ass...not a good deal.
-Indisputable fact is that AT pilots' careers have more value than they did prior.
-Indisputable fact is that SWA pilots are better off with the deal.

Gary cares about his brand, his shareholders and his deal...everything else comes after. He wasn't going to open his wallet when he didn't have to. Instead of being pissed about not getting "your" money early, look forward to the day when you at least get it - when you become a SWA pilot. Our guys should consider the impact on the AT pilots' seniority and be respectful about it. I'd kinda like to have my type rating money back, but I made a business decision and it was a price I was willing to pay to play where I wanted to.

These stupid threads do nothing for us as we near 2015 and everyone being SWA. None of these issues are going to be ironed out until the integration is done and the dust settles.

 

[texman]

Gen nuts! Quick question. Why does Delta have a B scale with the 717? The 12 year rates are less than the 12 year 737 rates? Please tell.

 

[Lear70]

All of these threads are bull$hit. Many on our side had unrealistic expectations just like the other side. There are a few simple facts that go completely ignored, mostly because no one wants to take ownership and be accountable for their wants that far exceeded reality.

-SWA pilots weren't going to get a full staple.
-AirTran pilots were giddy as anyone would have been until they figured the process wouldn't happen at the speed of heat.
-Some SWA guys refuse to see the deal they got - very good considering where it could have gone.
-AirTran guys will never know if they got a "good deal" or not. Why? Because there is no way to know what their careers at AT would have been absent the purchase.
----Had AT not done well...they got a great deal.
----Had AT rebounded and kicked ass...not a good deal.
-Indisputable fact is that AT pilots' careers have more value than they did prior.
-Indisputable fact is that SWA pilots are better off with the deal.

Gary cares about his brand, his shareholders and his deal...everything else comes after. He wasn't going to open his wallet when he didn't have to. Instead of being pissed about not getting "your" money early, look forward to the day when you at least get it - when you become a SWA pilot. Our guys should consider the impact on the AT pilots' seniority and be respectful about it. I'd kinda like to have my type rating money back, but I made a business decision and it was a price I was willing to pay to play where I wanted to.

These stupid threads do nothing for us as we near 2015 and everyone being SWA. None of these issues are going to be ironed out until the integration is done and the dust settles.

D*mn good post.

 

[scoreboardII]

Ditto

 

[General Lee]

Gen nuts! Quick question. Why does Delta have a B scale with the 717? The 12 year rates are less than the 12 year 737 rates? Please tell.

Ummmmmm, what? The 717 gets the same rate as the DC9, same size. At DL, the 737 pays about $5 an hour less than the 757/767. Maybe you are trying to be humorous (???), but what the B-scale at your airline means is the pay for the 737 at AT and SWA aren't paid the same, and that is bad. Got it yet? Do you need more examples to figure it out? Same plane, different pay=bad.....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

All of these threads are bull$hit. Many on our side had unrealistic expectations just like the other side. There are a few simple facts that go completely ignored, mostly because no one wants to take ownership and be accountable for their wants that far exceeded reality.

-SWA pilots weren't going to get a full staple.
-AirTran pilots were giddy as anyone would have been until they figured the process wouldn't happen at the speed of heat.
-Some SWA guys refuse to see the deal they got - very good considering where it could have gone.
-AirTran guys will never know if they got a "good deal" or not. Why? Because there is no way to know what their careers at AT would have been absent the purchase.
----Had AT not done well...they got a great deal.u
----Had AT rebounded and kicked ass...not a good deal.
-Indisputable fact is that AT pilots' careers have more value than they did prior.
-Indisputable fact is that SWA pilots are better off with the deal.

Gary cares about his brand, his shareholders and his deal...everything else comes after. He wasn't going to open his wallet when he didn't have to. Instead of being pissed about not getting "your" money early, look forward to the day when you at least get it - when you become a SWA pilot. Our guys should consider the impact on the AT pilots' seniority and be respectful about it. I'd kinda like to have my type rating money back, but I made a business decision and it was a price I was willing to pay to play where I wanted to.

These stupid threads do nothing for us as we near 2015 and everyone being SWA. None of these issues are going to be ironed out until the integration is done and the dust settles.

No, these threads bring out what was WRONG with specific mergers, so hopefully it won't happen again, or will be handled differently next time. Like:

1. When two groups merge, management should NOT favor one side over the other. That never created unity, between pilot groups or with the new company. Stay out of integration management.....

2. When you say you will do something in a prior agreement, follow through. (That goes for US Easties and the agreement to do binding arbitration, and certain management types from another airline apparently agreeing to things, and then not.....)

3. Don't pay different payrates for the same plane type. No, not good. No unity there. Same pay in a joint contract is the FIRST thing done in a successful merger. Same pay takes the sting away from the eventual SLI.


4. Don't take years to integrate. Come on! Unity? Have enough money to complete the merger fully after the purchase is made...



No merger is perfect, but these latest mergers had airlines that had the benefit of watching a couple go first. One went relatively well, the other did not. No excuses.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[canyonblue]

D*mn good post.

Agreed, good post. The the Delto dork has to add his comments which I never read. Please stop adding to anything SWA, it's not your airline doosh.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

All of these threads are bull$hit. Many on our side had unrealistic expectations just like the other side. There are a few simple facts that go completely ignored, mostly because no one wants to take ownership and be accountable for their wants that far exceeded reality.

-SWA pilots weren't going to get a full staple.
-AirTran pilots were giddy as anyone would have been until they figured the process wouldn't happen at the speed of heat.
-Some SWA guys refuse to see the deal they got - very good considering where it could have gone.
-AirTran guys will never know if they got a "good deal" or not. Why? Because there is no way to know what their careers at AT would have been absent the purchase.
----Had AT not done well...they got a great deal.
----Had AT rebounded and kicked ass...not a good deal.
-Indisputable fact is that AT pilots' careers have more value than they did prior.
-Indisputable fact is that SWA pilots are better off with the deal.

Gary cares about his brand, his shareholders and his deal...everything else comes after. He wasn't going to open his wallet when he didn't have to. Instead of being pissed about not getting "your" money early, look forward to the day when you at least get it - when you become a SWA pilot. Our guys should consider the impact on the AT pilots' seniority and be respectful about it. I'd kinda like to have my type rating money back, but I made a business decision and it was a price I was willing to pay to play where I wanted to.

These stupid threads do nothing for us as we near 2015 and everyone being SWA. None of these issues are going to be ironed out until the integration is done and the dust settles.

I stopped commenting on this thing a long time ago because it solves nothing and despite what the women would have us believe, "talking about it" doesn't make me feel any better. This post pretty much sums up my view as well and I really hope we can stop "re litigating" what happened here soon and move on like some have suggested. It's depressing to see it come up over and over again.

 

[Tripower455]

Maybe you are trying to be humorous (???), but what the B-scale at your airline means is the pay for the 737 at AT and SWA aren't paid the same, and that is bad.

Do you even know what a B scale is, or the history behind the term? Your posts on the subject referencing the SW/AT deal indicate that you don't.

Whether you think it's right or wrong (and no one asked you anyway), AT and SW are being operated as separate airlines, separate lists during the transition, per the agreement both sides voted for.

The AT guys get full SW pay (with their AT longevity) the day they get a SW ID.

 

[bladeusa]

and until then.. spend 3 years with a 25% take home pay cut, terrible schedule, >40% of pilots on reserve and out of seniority transition.