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SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

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General Lee said:
No, when I see something that is an injustice, I give plenty of opinions about it. Over the last 11 years on here I have picked on a lot of groups that deserved it, like the US Easties, certain Comair guys, and now specific Corndogs. They are always welcome to give their own opinions or retorts, or just ignore. Whatever...



Bye Bye---General Lee
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Injustice? I guess it's all the the eye of the beholder. Just a little history on Delta. Did you know that the Pan Am pilots had to wait 36 months for pay parity at Delta?, and, All Pan Am pilots had to be based in New York for two years before they could bid into another Delta domicle?.(Not a big deal for A310s, but most 727 guys were Miami based at the time.) Some senior 727 captains took as much as a 12 year seniority loss. (Meaning back to right seat at Pam Am 727 FO pay.) Basically a 60% pay cut. Now I know you're going to say that they rescued 600 pilots from the sinking Pan Am Titanic, but do you think that's the fair treatment that you keep talking about?
 
Toecutter said:
Injustice? I guess it's all the the eye of the beholder. Just a little history on Delta. Did you know that the Pan Am pilots had to wait 36 months for pay parity at Delta?, and, All Pan Am pilots had to be based in New York for two years before they could bid into another Delta domicle?.(Not a big deal for A310s, but most 727 guys were Miami based at the time.) Some senior 727 captains took as much as a 12 year seniority loss. (Meaning back to right seat at Pam Am 727 FO pay.) Basically a 60% pay cut. Now I know you're going to say that they rescued 600 pilots from the sinking Pan Am Titanic, but do you think that's the fair treatment that you keep talking about?
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You're right Lear, here we go again......First of all, this was a partial asset sale, and the Pan Am guys could have stayed with Pan Am afterwards. It was their choice. The Airtran guys had no choice. You said Pan Am guys were bumped down to FO. There were 30 Pan Am 747 pilots that bid the Pan Am Shuttle on the 727 Capt (bumped their own guys off), just to make sure they ended up going to DL, and then they got back to the 767ER as a Captain as they finished their careers, instead of the unemployment line. I'd say they did a lot better paywise than the alternative. So, try not to compare the Pan Am situation with the Airtran situation. It was all voluntary, and it happened 20 years ago. If stuff like that still happens today, that is a shame. But keep bringing up the past and trying to justify it. These latest mergers have NOT gone well, and that didn't have to happen.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
General Lee said:
You're right Lear, here we go again......
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You two freaks are the Kings of the broken records. You two annoying dudes repeat the same things over and over and over and over again.

The Delta history is fundamentally indefensible. But that sure doesn't keep the strange little man from trying over and over and over and over again convincing absolutely no one except his new bestie Lear70 who got fired how many times from AirTran? Or is that PCL. I get the crazies confused.
 
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Sy-bil said:
You two freaks are the Kings of the broken records. You two annoying dudes repeat the same things over and over and over and over again.

The Delta history is fundamentally indefensible. But that sure doesn't keep the strange little man from trying over and over and over and over again convincing absolutely no one except his new bestie Lear70 who got fired how many times from AirTran? Or is that PCL. I get the crazies confused.
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I LUV it, the DL history is "fundamentally indefensible..." Wow. Obsess MUCH.... Get over it. We could go over a lot of social injustices in the past too, but it doesn't make it ok TODAY. You are crazy old man!


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Wait, you COULD CARE LESS? So, you do care a lot? That's awesome. Hey, look up Yahoo Aviation finance each morning and find out the latest and greatest at DL. Enjoy it.

Btw, I wish I didn't have to read and hear about the injustices at your place. Please fix them, so I don't have to continue to debate how poorly you merged. Really, it didn't have to be that way. You had two examples of how to merge before your turn, and I think you took the wrong path....


Bye Bye---General Lee
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I guess if you got nothing else then you might as well attack the typo.
 
General Lee said:
You're right Lear, here we go again......First of all, this was a partial asset sale, and the Pan Am guys could have stayed with Pan Am afterwards. It was their choice. The Airtran guys had no choice. You said Pan Am guys were bumped down to FO. There were 30 Pan Am 747 pilots that bid the Pan Am Shuttle on the 727 Capt (bumped their own guys off), just to make sure they ended up going to DL, and then they got back to the 767ER as a Captain as they finished their careers, instead of the unemployment line. I'd say they did a lot better paywise than the alternative. So, try not to compare the Pan Am situation with the Airtran situation. It was all voluntary, and it happened 20 years ago. If stuff like that still happens today, that is a shame. But keep bringing up the past and trying to justify it. These latest mergers have NOT gone well, and that didn't have to happen.



Bye Bye---General Lee
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They all got to retire as 767 captains making tons of money, what's the big deal?That sounds kind of similar to the same argument that some of the SWA guys have been making. The point of my post was to ask you if you thought the Pan Am pilots were treated fairly when they transitioned to Delta, or were they lucky just to have a job. The "Dirty Thirty" were mostly ALPA officers and their cronies that made sure they had a life jacket. Kind of like most of ATN Alpa is already at SWA. You can say the Pan AM aquisition is anient history, buy I see a lot of similarities to today.
 
This is different how?

Am I missing something? What's the difference between the "end of 2014" and "beginning of 2015"........besides a killer hangover and a few, lame, new year's resolutions?
 
Sy-bil said:
You two freaks are the Kings of the broken records. You two annoying dudes repeat the same things over and over and over and over again.
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Then don't read it. There's this magic little thing called the "ignore list". So when I have to come BACK on here and repeat the SAME things for the slow learners who post the SAME SH*T over and over again that's incorrect, you don't have to listen to it.

Mkay?

The Delta history is fundamentally indefensible. But that sure doesn't keep the strange little man from trying over and over and over and over again convincing absolutely no one except his new bestie Lear70 who got fired how many times from AirTran?
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Once, thanks. Or are you in the "slow learner" camp, too?

And my post was because they spent the last WEEK back and forth about this issue, and someone brings it up again like it's some new debate. Why don't people read and catch up before they post? It's not rocket science.

Or is that PCL. I get the crazies confused.
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Take a look in the mirror. Maybe we can get you the right mix of meds this time.
 
Toecutter said:
They all got to retire as 767 captains making tons of money, what's the big deal?That sounds kind of similar to the same argument that some of the SWA guys have been making. The point of my post was to ask you if you thought the Pan Am pilots were treated fairly when they transitioned to Delta, or were they lucky just to have a job. The "Dirty Thirty" were mostly ALPA officers and their cronies that made sure they had a life jacket. Kind of like most of ATN Alpa is already at SWA. You can say the Pan AM aquisition is anient history, buy I see a lot of similarities to today.
Click to expand...

Pan Am sold the Atlantic Ops and the NYC Shuttle to DL, and the Pacific Ops to United. It was a fire sale to stay alive, and a lot of the pilots just stayed at the remnants of Pan Am until it went away on its own. The pilots had choices. Nothing was forced on them, no "second offer and you better take it" type deals. It was worked out beforehand, and you knew what you were getting into. It's hard to compare the two. The AT merger wasn't billed as an asset sale initially, even though it appears that way now with the 717s leaving. Initially, management said they would keep those most likely, and the AT 737 Capts even bid over to the 717 to stay Capts. So, you might see a couple similarities, but mostly they are different cases here, mostly brought up by Corndogs on this site to try to justify the treatment, and to make themselves feel better about it. "Well, it happened to the Pan Am guys, I guess...." No, not really the same.....


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
A red eye that gets me back home at 7am on a day off is still a lost day off. An 18 day off line still becomes a 14 day off line.
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What is a junior Pilot at an airline to do? I mean, brother you were junior at tranny before SWA bought 'em. :bawling:
 
Wrong.
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717 FO = 737 CA...... nah

Now that is funny. I actually looked up your status on the list. You were on the property for 4 years when Southwest announced they were buying AT. 4 years... You talk like you were some big bad 717CA with a sweet schedule or something... You have probably never ever seen a line with 18 days off, that you now claim is unacceptable when you cross over to SWA.

Then you bad mouth SWA, say you are never coming over then complain about how long the transition is taking. So what is it? Do you want to come over or not? We know you would rather do union work then fly - so now that all the AT flying is being robbed by SWA and SWA is paying guys to basically sit at home, you are still not happy.

:bawling:
 
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SWA/FO said:
You talk like you were some big bad 717CA with a sweet schedule or something... You have probably never ever seen a line with 18 days off, that you now claim is unacceptable when you cross over to SWA.
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I was getting in my top five choices every month, dipsh&*. You don't know as much as you think you do.

Then you bad mouth SWA, say you are never coming over then complain about how long the transition is taking.
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When have I ever complained about how long the transition is taking? Do I think it makes them incompetent? Absolutely. But I'm not complaining. I think it's great. Drag it out forever, for all I care!
 
Dash Power said:
Awwww. There lies the problem. This was an integration based on an acquisition. This was not a merger.

Just as a reminder, NWA and DAL decided to merge operations. SWA purchased AT. In every definition there is a big difference.

But I m absolutely certain you can not see the difference. :)
Click to expand...

Incorrect.

This was constructed, planned, and presented from the beginning as a merger.

If you have read any of the merger agreement documents between the companies, you will be hard pressed to find major differences.
 

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