SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[humveedriver]

We all had a pre merger idea of what our careers would be like. We each had ideas about what the SWA/AT merger would look like. Now our career paths have been somewhat altered. I view most of the negative or the out there posts here as venting about that change. In the end we will all be able to put food on the table, so it's all a matter of perspective. Removing the SLI out the picture, I am still really dissapointed with the way and time SWA chose to combine the airlines. I thought SWA would have knocked it out of the park. Instead it turned out to be this really long shaping operation, that will pay off once victory is inevatible.

 

[SWA/FO]

I am still really dissapointed with the way and time SWA chose to combine the airlines.

I agree, its like watching a monkey *(^& a football.

 

[Lear70]

Oh Jesus... now we're back at Guadalupe.

For as much as pilots like to play CEO on here, most of them are woefully uneducated when it comes to structuring holding companies for tax implications and other legal purposes, none of which had anything to do with determining who merged with who as it pertains to seniority integration.

Two completely different things. Incidentally, Guadalupe ceased to exist long before SIA 1 or 2 were completed.

Oh, and by the way, read THIS and tell me how many times you read the word "Merger" and get back to us:

http://agreements.realdealdocs.com/...EMENT-AND-PLAN-OF-MERGER-BY-AND-AMON-2763947/

 

[SWA/FO]

When have I ever complained about how long the transition is taking? Do I think it makes them incompetent? Absolutely. But I'm not complaining. I think it's great. Drag it out forever, for all I care!

"General, at the rate they're screwing this merger up, I could probably wait until 2025, and they still wouldn't have transitioned everyone." Post #411 on codeshare thread

Just because you bid what you can hold and got your #5 choice, doesn't mean a thing. Poor 4 year FO.... bring that game over and cry to our 10-11 year FO's - I don't think they will want to hear it. You weren't even close to moving seats.

This is probably the best thing that could have happened to you in your career, I mean you didn't even qualify to apply at Southwest. I know you never wanted to work at Southwest..etc etc.. bah bah. You will probably look back and be glad this all happened one day. Its a great Company. :cartman:

 

[humveedriver]

This is probably the best thing that could have happened to you in your career, I mean you didn't even qualify to apply at Southwest. I know you never wanted to work at Southwest..etc etc.. bah bah. You will probably look back and be glad this all happened one day. Its a great Company. :cartman:

No. Not really. I dont know PCL very well personally, but what I do know is he was born to an ALPA national officer or aviation attorney. He has never struck me as being passionate about the flying side of the career, I believe he prefers the regulatory and business side. I wish him the best. He never struck me as line pilot material. This is not meant to be derogatory to him.

 

[PCL_128]

"General, at the rate they're screwing this merger up, I could probably wait until 2025, and they still wouldn't have transitioned everyone." Post #411 on codeshare thread

That's not a complaint, it's an observation of how horribly this merger is being executed. Want to see how a merger is supposed to work? Look at DAL/NWA. This merger is a pathetic mess.

Just because you bid what you can hold and got your #5 choice, doesn't mean a thing. Poor 4 year FO.... bring that game over and cry to our 10-11 year FO's - I don't think they will want to hear it. You weren't even close to moving seats.

No, I bid what I want, and I get it. What you don't seem to understand is that a 4-year FO here is the same as an 8-year FO at SWA. Your carrier is stagnant, and my carrier was growing and expanding, which is exactly why you knew that arbitration would have turned out horribly for you.

This is probably the best thing that could have happened to you in your career, I mean you didn't even qualify to apply at Southwest.

Where do you come up with this crap? Yes, I had the qualifications to apply for SWA. You might not have had the quals to apply at AirTran, though. Yes, that's right, AirTran's requirements were more restrictive, because we required part 121 PIC time instead of generic PIC time.

 

[madjack]

"For as much as pilots like to play CEO on here, most of them are woefully uneducated when it comes to structuring holding companies for tax implications and other legal purposes, none of which had anything to do with determining who merged with who as it pertains to seniority integration."

Dear Mr Educated Airline Pilot: AAI was bought by and became a subsidiary of Guadalupe Hdgs, which was in turn wholy owned by SWA...your airline was sold by your CEO to SWA...take up your beefs about this deal with him, he alone effed up your AAI career plans...not GK for buying your airline, which netted you a job at SWA or SWAPA which has an obligation to represent RSW pilots (who you will become soon enough)...save your energy for section 6 and the "alignment of labor contracts with management goals" Mike VdV's words...

 

[Lear70]

Dear Mr Educated Airline Pilot: AAI was bought by and became a subsidiary of Guadalupe Hdgs, which was in turn wholy owned by SWA...your airline was sold by your CEO to SWA...

Incorrect.

Did you ever even READ the corporate documents? In their entirety? AirTran was not bought by Guadalupe. Guadalupe and AirTran MERGED, with AirTran being the surviving entity. 8-K, Page 1. Then AirTran and Southwest MERGED, but being based in the same state, all to avoid the tax implications.

Read the link I gave you again. Lots of good stuff in there and the 8-K's.

take up your beefs about this deal with him, he alone effed up your AAI career plans...not GK for buying your airline, which netted you a job at SWA or SWAPA which has an obligation to represent RSW pilots (who you will become soon enough)...save your energy for section 6 and the "alignment of labor contracts with management goals" Mike VdV's words...

Yes, I'm aware. In negotiations we asked just how much they were going to come asking from you guys when they had carried your water so far (loose quote credited to Frank Early).

The response from management present was "Oh they know, and that time is coming soon."

I personally hope you guys hold the line. At this point, aside from the money SWA has in the bank and company stability, the pay is really the only thing to look forward to out of all this. I really hope we don't lose the flexibility of trip trading and that guys want to get rid of their "unproductive trips" to me and want my productive ones. You know, those terrible unproductive SJU, AUA, PUJ, MBJ, soon to be Rio, Cartagena, etc.

 

[canyonblue]

You might not have had the quals to apply at AirTran, though. Yes, that's right, AirTran's requirements were more restrictive, because we required part 121 PIC time instead of generic PIC time.

I actually know firsthand that he was indeed offered employment with Airtran, but he chose Southwest. He was more than qualified for ANY airline.

 

[SWA/FO]

Where do you come up with this crap? Yes, I had the qualifications to apply for SWA. You might not have had the quals to apply at AirTran, though. Yes, that's right, AirTran's requirements were more restrictive, because we required part 121 PIC time instead of generic PIC time.

Hey FYI - I got hired at AirTran and Southwest at the same time.

No, I bid what I want, and I get it. What you don't seem to understand is that a 4-year FO here is the same as an 8-year FO at SWA. Your carrier is stagnant, and my carrier was growing and expanding, which is exactly why you knew that arbitration would have turned out horribly for you.

.

You think arbitration was going to upgrade you? You fools had your ATL base, protected Captain slots and SWA pay right away in SL9 but that wasn't good enough. You played chicken with Gary Kelly, he is not Bob.

Then you lost credibility, and this drives you nuts. You told everyone around you that would listen how "it was all going to go down" and you were essentially wrong. :cartman:

 

[canyonblue]

Hey FYI - I got hired at AirTran and Southwest at the same time.

Look's like I responded while you were typing.

 

[B73av8r]

Can you say Guadalupe Holdings? get ur facts straight

I can see you have not read the merger agreement documents, if you did you would not have made either one of these comments.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

 

[PCL_128]

I actually know firsthand that he was indeed offered employment with Airtran, but he chose Southwest. He was more than qualified for ANY airline.

Good for him. But that wasn't really the point, was it? He claimed that someone at AirTran wouldn't have the mins to get hired at SWA, when in reality, AirTran had more stringent mins than SWA did. Just one more falsehood that you guys have dreamt up to justify your actions in the SLI.

 

[PCL_128]

Then you lost credibility, and this drives you nuts. You told everyone around you that would listen how "it was all going to go down" and you were essentially wrong. :cartman:

I wasn't wrong about anything. The MEC and the pilot group chose not to go the way that I thought we should go, and they voted on a crappy deal because they were scared. I remain convinced that if we had gone to arbitration, it would have been implemented, and the carriers would have been merged as agreed upon in the Process Agreement, despite the veiled threats. But now we'll never know.

 

[SWA/FO]

Yeah, AirTran was the hardest job in aviation to get. I remember one of my interview questions: What kind of beer to you drink on an overnight?

I thought, Fed Ex and Southwest had the highest mins, but I'm glad you pointed out that AT actually has the highest. I guess you guys never hired any former military guys, huh? I mean, where would they get the 121 time from?

 

[SWA/FO]

But now we'll never know

but we know who was right all along.

 

[Daddy]

you guys know the SLI is over with, right?

 

[SWA/FO]

you guys know the SLI is over with, right?

yes! It is.

 

[humveedriver]

you guys know the SLI is over with, right?

Not only did SWA management craft the SLI, they decided to keep the two pilot groups seperate for at least three years after acheiving single operating certificate. Somewhat sadistic in my opinion.

 

[PCL_128]

Yeah, AirTran was the hardest job in aviation to get. I remember one of my interview questions: What kind of beer to you drink on an overnight?

Yeah, I believe that story.

I guess you guys never hired any former military guys, huh? I mean, where would they get the 121 time from?

They allowed military equivalent. Part 91 and 135 were excluded.

 

[redflyer65]

PCL,

The hiring differences between both airlines was pretty stark, so I'm not sure that's a road you really want to venture down.

I will say there are some awesome guys at Airtran and I'm glad they will be Southwest pilots. They endured more pain from that horrible management team than should have been allowed. And yes, I'm sure there are plenty of AAI guys that are disgruntled with SW management for how this played out. But when on the line at SW, it's a great experience. Nothing comes close in my opinion (even though you might not like the trips). The flexiblity, pay, and over QOL is incredible.

 

[carl p]

Nice post earlier DUDE, great summary.

Nice post also Red.

 

[madjack]

"I personally hope you guys hold the line. At this point, aside from the money SWA has in the bank and company stability, the pay is really the only thing to look forward to out of all this. I really hope we don't lose the flexibility of trip trading and that guys want to get rid of their "unproductive trips" to me and want my productive ones. You know, those terrible unproductive SJU, AUA, PUJ, MBJ, soon to be Rio, Cartagena, etc. "

Lear, virtually all labor groups at SWA are or about to be in negotiations at the same time...VDV has spelled out his goals...my personal interpretation as it apples to the pilot group is that those pilots who call in sick a lot and/or are used to flying at "premium" rates will be most impacted...the challenge in convincing the rank and file within SWAPA will be the perceived "loss of flexibility" and the notion the company has a revenue problem not a cost problem...

 

[scoreboardII]

Not only did SWA management craft the SLI, they decided to keep the two pilot groups seperate for at least three years after acheiving single operating certificate. Somewhat sadistic in my opinion.

You see, now thats a hummer, although way to heavy a version for my tastes...

 

[scoreboardII]

"I personally hope you guys hold the line. At this point, aside from the money SWA has in the bank and company stability, the pay is really the only thing to look forward to out of all this. I really hope we don't lose the flexibility of trip trading and that guys want to get rid of their "unproductive trips" to me and want my productive ones. You know, those terrible unproductive SJU, AUA, PUJ, MBJ, soon to be Rio, Cartagena, etc. "

Lear, virtually all labor groups at SWA are or about to be in negotiations at the same time...VDV has spelled out his goals...my personal interpretation as it apples to the pilot group is that those pilots who call in sick a lot and/or are used to flying at "premium" rates will be most impacted...the challenge in convincing the rank and file within SWAPA will be the perceived "loss of flexibility" and the notion the company has a revenue problem not a cost problem...

I disagree, this a shot across the bow of ground ops and FA's. They need the flexibility to hire part-timers to fill holes during peak times, something their contract now prevents. They need to correct the outrageous sick call abuse over holidays and bad weather events. (Going to snow in MDW? Call in sick for two days and miss it all). They need FA's who fly, and not give away their line and use the benefits and drive up training costs. They need the FA's to realize they need to fly their line, not dump it back into their trade system and bid it back at two or three times premium. Pilots have a sick rate below 7 percent, much lower than any other union on property and we have the 65 year olds. Pilots are not the issue here.

 

[redflyer65]

Scoreboard, you are exactly right. There are plenty of areas that need work. I don't see much fat to be trimmed on the pilot side. Other work groups have plenty of pork built in. We need to lean it out.

 

[PCL_128]

Scoreboard, you are exactly right. There are plenty of areas that need work. I don't see much fat to be trimmed on the pilot side.

You guys are in for a rude awakening. :laugh:

 

[SWA/FO]

PCL has all the answers with his vast experience.

 

[freightdogfred]

You guys are in for a rude awakening. :laugh:

Don't interrupt the unicorns at feeding time, there's a shortage of stardust predicted. I guess the world ends tonight anyways, why didn't I liquidate my 401K?

 

[humveedriver]

You see, now thats a hummer, although way to heavy a version for my tastes...

It was time for a new avatar. My property book says I'm spposed to have M998's which is the soft top, soft skinned version that would be alot more mission friendly for the domestic operation mision we will have this year. Instead I get these heavy, uparmored 1165s that are harder to see out of. I guess if we respond to total civil unrest we will be in good hands.