SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[General Lee]

All of these threads are bull$hit. Many on our side had unrealistic expectations just like the other side. There are a few simple facts that go completely ignored, mostly because no one wants to take ownership and be accountable for their wants that far exceeded reality.

-SWA pilots weren't going to get a full staple.
-AirTran pilots were giddy as anyone would have been until they figured the process wouldn't happen at the speed of heat.
-Some SWA guys refuse to see the deal they got - very good considering where it could have gone.
-AirTran guys will never know if they got a "good deal" or not. Why? Because there is no way to know what their careers at AT would have been absent the purchase.
----Had AT not done well...they got a great deal.u
----Had AT rebounded and kicked ass...not a good deal.
-Indisputable fact is that AT pilots' careers have more value than they did prior.
-Indisputable fact is that SWA pilots are better off with the deal.

Gary cares about his brand, his shareholders and his deal...everything else comes after. He wasn't going to open his wallet when he didn't have to. Instead of being pissed about not getting "your" money early, look forward to the day when you at least get it - when you become a SWA pilot. Our guys should consider the impact on the AT pilots' seniority and be respectful about it. I'd kinda like to have my type rating money back, but I made a business decision and it was a price I was willing to pay to play where I wanted to.

These stupid threads do nothing for us as we near 2015 and everyone being SWA. None of these issues are going to be ironed out until the integration is done and the dust settles.

No, these threads bring out what was WRONG with specific mergers, so hopefully it won't happen again, or will be handled differently next time. Like:

1. When two groups merge, management should NOT favor one side over the other. That never created unity, between pilot groups or with the new company. Stay out of integration management.....

2. When you say you will do something in a prior agreement, follow through. (That goes for US Easties and the agreement to do binding arbitration, and certain management types from another airline apparently agreeing to things, and then not.....)

3. Don't pay different payrates for the same plane type. No, not good. No unity there. Same pay in a joint contract is the FIRST thing done in a successful merger. Same pay takes the sting away from the eventual SLI.


4. Don't take years to integrate. Come on! Unity? Have enough money to complete the merger fully after the purchase is made...



No merger is perfect, but these latest mergers had airlines that had the benefit of watching a couple go first. One went relatively well, the other did not. No excuses.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[canyonblue]

D*mn good post.

Agreed, good post. The the Delto dork has to add his comments which I never read. Please stop adding to anything SWA, it's not your airline doosh.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

All of these threads are bull$hit. Many on our side had unrealistic expectations just like the other side. There are a few simple facts that go completely ignored, mostly because no one wants to take ownership and be accountable for their wants that far exceeded reality.

-SWA pilots weren't going to get a full staple.
-AirTran pilots were giddy as anyone would have been until they figured the process wouldn't happen at the speed of heat.
-Some SWA guys refuse to see the deal they got - very good considering where it could have gone.
-AirTran guys will never know if they got a "good deal" or not. Why? Because there is no way to know what their careers at AT would have been absent the purchase.
----Had AT not done well...they got a great deal.
----Had AT rebounded and kicked ass...not a good deal.
-Indisputable fact is that AT pilots' careers have more value than they did prior.
-Indisputable fact is that SWA pilots are better off with the deal.

Gary cares about his brand, his shareholders and his deal...everything else comes after. He wasn't going to open his wallet when he didn't have to. Instead of being pissed about not getting "your" money early, look forward to the day when you at least get it - when you become a SWA pilot. Our guys should consider the impact on the AT pilots' seniority and be respectful about it. I'd kinda like to have my type rating money back, but I made a business decision and it was a price I was willing to pay to play where I wanted to.

These stupid threads do nothing for us as we near 2015 and everyone being SWA. None of these issues are going to be ironed out until the integration is done and the dust settles.

I stopped commenting on this thing a long time ago because it solves nothing and despite what the women would have us believe, "talking about it" doesn't make me feel any better. This post pretty much sums up my view as well and I really hope we can stop "re litigating" what happened here soon and move on like some have suggested. It's depressing to see it come up over and over again.

 

[Tripower455]

Maybe you are trying to be humorous (???), but what the B-scale at your airline means is the pay for the 737 at AT and SWA aren't paid the same, and that is bad.

Do you even know what a B scale is, or the history behind the term? Your posts on the subject referencing the SW/AT deal indicate that you don't.

Whether you think it's right or wrong (and no one asked you anyway), AT and SW are being operated as separate airlines, separate lists during the transition, per the agreement both sides voted for.

The AT guys get full SW pay (with their AT longevity) the day they get a SW ID.

 

[bladeusa]

and until then.. spend 3 years with a 25% take home pay cut, terrible schedule, >40% of pilots on reserve and out of seniority transition.

 

[ATLplt]

and until then.. spend 3 years with a 25% take home pay cut, terrible schedule, >40% of pilots on reserve and out of seniority transition.

Look at the bright side. When you cross over you'll get the privilege of commuting to the west coast AND get to spend your raise on a crash pad or hotel rooms.

 

[Lear70]

That's why I'm bidding Vegas, baby. Cheap hotels! and other entertainments... lol

 

[Candide]

.............

 

[canyonblue]

That's why I'm bidding Vegas, baby. Cheap hotels! and other entertainments... lol

Not sure where you live, but many guys in Vegas bid PM lines, and commute in on day one then fly a redeye home on day 3 or 4. No Hotel bills, unless you want to stay for the entertainment.

 

[General Lee]

Do you even know what a B scale is, or the history behind the term? Your posts on the subject referencing the SW/AT deal indicate that you don't.

Whether you think it's right or wrong (and no one asked you anyway), AT and SW are being operated as separate airlines, separate lists during the transition, per the agreement both sides voted for.

The AT guys get full SW pay (with their AT longevity) the day they get a SW ID.

Hi Tri, maybe you don't understand GOOD mergers. In a good merger, people get a JOINT contract first (same pay for same type equipment). Then, an SLI is negotiated or arbitrated, so you don't have to blame management or the guy sitting next to you, you can blame the arbitrator if you couldn't negotiate it yourself (most can't). Then, you integrate as fast as you can, not take years.... Come on! That is lame, and does not promote unity or loyalty. After flying at your 17 airlines, you should know that by now. Btw, how many if those above did your airline follow? How's your merger going in your eyes? Riiight.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[chris69]

Dude,
You can't post that! This board is for purgation and catharsis.
Chris

PS: Great post

 

[Lear70]

Not sure where you live, but many guys in Vegas bid PM lines, and commute in on day one then fly a redeye home on day 3 or 4. No Hotel bills, unless you want to stay for the entertainment.

Nashville, I don't think there's a red-eye back here on anyone.

Will probably fly out the day before and fly the A.M. lines so I can get home on the last day. Something about not having to get a hotel at the END of your trip seems easier than getting one on the front end.

Plus I'm less likely to get in trouble if I have to get up early on Day 1.

 

[Dash Power]

Hi Tri, maybe you don't understand GOOD mergers. In a good merger, people get a JOINT contract first (same pay for same type equipment). Then, an SLI is negotiated or arbitrated, so you don't have to blame management or the guy sitting next to you, you can blame the arbitrator if you couldn't negotiate it yourself (most can't). Then, you integrate as fast as you can, not take years.... Come on! That is lame, and does not promote unity or loyalty. After flying at your 17 airlines, you should know that by now. Btw, how many if those above did your airline follow? How's your merger going in your eyes? Riiight.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Awwww. There lies the problem. This was an integration based on an acquisition. This was not a merger.

Just as a reminder, NWA and DAL decided to merge operations. SWA purchased AT. In every definition there is a big difference.

But I m absolutely certain you can not see the difference.

 

[canyonblue]

Plus I'm less likely to get in trouble if I have to get up early on Day 1.

In Vegas, good luck. :beer:

 

[Tripower455]

Hi Tri, maybe you don't understand GOOD mergers. In a good merger, people get a JOINT contract first (same pay for same type equipment). Then, an SLI is negotiated or arbitrated, so you don't have to blame management or the guy sitting next to you, you can blame the arbitrator if you couldn't negotiate it yourself (most can't). Then, you integrate as fast as you can, not take years.... Come on! That is lame, and does not promote unity or loyalty. After flying at your 17 airlines, you should know that by now. Btw, how many if those above did your airline follow? How's your merger going in your eyes? Riiight.



Bye Bye---General Lee

You pride yourself as being mastur debater, yet you quote me, and don't even address the subject of the quote in any way.

You have, on numerous occasions incorrectly referred to the current AT pay scales as B scales. There is no B scale at SW or AT.

As for the rest.....

There is no such thing as a "good merger".