SWA to speed up Airtran integration.....article

[roughneck]

People don't make guarantee at SWA either. The AVG Trip credit per month is 107 per pilot. Run the numbers on that.

 

[Lear70]

People don't make guarantee at SWA either. The AVG Trip credit per month is 107 per pilot. Run the numbers on that.

So you average 92 hrs of block EVERY MONTH amongst all your pilots? Because that's what 107 TFP works out to without premium pay and that sounds like one miserable life to me, not to mention that would be over 1,000 hrs block per year (almost 1,100).

The actual hour average for SWA is much lower once you exclude POT, just like you exclude green slip flying at Delta to compare contracts. Actual W-2 at the end of the year is important of course, but there's a lot of people who don't chase premium time and they compare straight numbers on an average paying line.

 

[madjack]

It is not a miserable life... The lines/pairings are efficient...

 

[redflyer65]

No pilot makes guarantee. I'm one of the laziest pilots you'll ever find, and even I don't make guarantee.

This is EXACTLY what I said in my post.

Read Roughnecks comment. In the summer, the lines run 100-104. It is simple to do 110tpf a month. SIMPLE. And that's not even looking at POT. I don't even open up the Open Time window.

Even at 110 a month, your home alot.

110 a month is $14,612/month. No premium pay, no green slip, no anything. I agree that most DL guys don't fly min. That's in my post as well.

Lear, one thing you might not realize is that the longer legs are worth more per hour. On top of that, there is plenty of soft credit with the rigs. When we start a line of flying at say 104tfp, I can guarantee you that it's only going to go up.....if you do nothing other than fly your line. It NEVER goes down.

Throw in a sweet vacation overlap pull on both ends, and lucrative pay during your training month (if that's what you want) and your averages for the year go up dramatically. But again, if you don't want to work hard, or don't want to bust your butt on your training/vacation month...then don't. The flexiblity is awesome.

Another side note, I believe you guys come over with your full longevity. So even some of the most junior will bring over 3 weeks of vacation and all the benefits that comes with that. You can even trade your vacation if you want. Do it trip at a time, etc, etc, etc.

And believe me, I do not work the system. Just bid what I can hold and pick up wisely.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lear, on my board when I average 110-115TFP I only fly 78-84 hard hours, not 95. It's not just TFP to hourly, t's Deadheads, etc...

 

[Lear70]

I forgot that the longer legs are more TFP than straight conversion ratio. My bad.

Anything over 80 hrs of block is a hard working month in my book. 75-78 hrs sounds pretty good and yes, we bring over our longevity for everything pay and vacay related, so 3 wks to use.

 

[Flyer1015]

PCL_128, when are you officially not an ALPA pilot? I'm sure SWAPA is the surviving entity? I'll bring you whatever you need to get through not being ALPA anymore. Anti-depressants, defibrillator, sympathy ice cream, whatever you need. Your withdrawal symptoms are gonna be bad.

 

[ASADFW7]

There is a lot that goes into TFP like overlap, vacation bids, training, etc. If you want to average that all into pay per hour, I averaged 183 a block hour as a first officer.

 

[SWA/FO]

Lear.... you don't know the Southwest Airlines Job.

Much like we don't understand how HAPPY you guys really were at Tranny or even how to fly outside the lower 48. Its a good job, and most of you guys will like it and realize that you had no clue as to what you were posting here.

I have a Tranny buddy that is having a rough transition to SWA.... complaining about "working too much'' etc... I looked at his schedule and realized he has no idea how our open time system works. Not a clue. He is picking up junk, almost no one here would fly. He has seniority here via the SLI and is not using it. I bought this up and he said "yeah, yeah"

A former Tranny in DEN has however figured out our open time system and recently outbid me for a sweet charter. Ask him if its working for him..... he was smiling when I talked to him.

 

[Lear70]

Lear.... you don't know the Southwest Airlines Job.

Much like we don't understand how HAPPY you guys really were at Tranny or even how to fly outside the lower 48. Its a good job, and most of you guys will like it and realize that you had no clue as to what you were posting here.

I have a Tranny buddy that is having a rough transition to SWA.... complaining about "working too much'' etc... I looked at his schedule and realized he has no idea how our open time system works. Not a clue. He is picking up junk, almost no one here would fly. He has seniority here via the SLI and is not using it. I bought this up and he said "yeah, yeah"

A former Tranny in DEN has however figured out our open time system and recently outbid me for a sweet charter. Ask him if its working for him..... he was smiling when I talked to him.

Fair enough.

That was my New Year's Resolution. No more SLI talk, it's just making me pi$$ed off and not helping me move on. I've vented, said my peace, and want to try to put it behind me and approach the transition (once I have to come over) with an open mind.

Figure a year of not getting wound up over stuff (even the crap Max posts) and just letting it go, while flying the easy trips and just taking it easy, collecting the check, and going home will help when it comes time to do my two months in Dallas, that and letting all the junior people come over first and plug the holes in reserve lines and junior lines in West Coast bases.

It'll all work out, just gotta figure out how to manage my newly-moved cheese.

 

[scoreboardII]

Lear, what's the AT policy on getting buddy passes? Attendance based, how many, etc?

 

[Lear70]

Oh man, I don't really remember off the top of my head, since we don't fly to Nashville and most of my family is here, I only use 2 or 3 a year (Mom's on my passes and parent travel is unlimited, Dad has his USAirways retirement bennies and has better priority on them than us).

I seem to remember it was 6 yearly, not attendance-based, and in Sep-Oct they usually throw 2 more out there just to generate a little extra cash for the slow months, have to use them those two months...???

Someone else who uses them could verify,,,

SWA's is similar, is it not? Would have loved to have horse traded a few with someone - my fiance' and I travel to her Dad's in MSY regularly and the non-stops from BNA down there on SWA are a lot more convenient. That said, with her last two non-rev experiences, she has simply purchased tickets lately. Said anything under $1,000 round-trip beats sitting in an airport all day on one of the few days she gets off. Had a couple bad experiences out of ATL with morning flights being wide open, having an evening flight leave a bunch of people, and suddenly it's full all day.

Ahh, the joys of non-revving. I grew up with it and am used to it, but forget how aggravating it is for people who aren't.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

12 one ways a year. 4 extra in Sep-Oct. Total of 8 round trips if properly utilized. I use all mine and then some, family well-schooled in non-rev travel .

 

[texman]

Didn't our buddy pass program just change? Can someone explain to me in plain english what this means.

 

[scoreboardII]

Yep, one tfp of sick leave and you lose the points for the month. Call in sick Feb 27 and stay sick till 1 Mar and you lose two months.

You earn points to buy passes or gift cards for use on the swa website, problem is, the items for sale are about twice the price as those on amazon.

Ridiculous process, punishing the masses for the abuses of the few.

 

[Lear70]

Yep, one tfp of sick leave and you lose the points for the month. Call in sick Feb 27 and stay sick till 1 Mar and you lose two months.

You earn points to buy passes or gift cards for use on the swa website, problem is, the items for sale are about twice the price as those on amazon.

Ridiculous process, punishing the masses for the abuses of the few.

Whoa, whoa, wait a second. They changed your buddy pass system so that if you happen to be sick more than a certain number of days in a year, you lose your buddy passes???

I can understand earning points to buy EXTRA passes or something else of promotional value, but if buddy passes were part of the previous compensation package, albeit not contractual, it seems pretty crappy to penalize someone who might genuinely break a leg snow skiing or something and be out a few months.

Haven't said anything about it on our side of the partition, and they "streamlined" our buddy and companion passes a while back, thought what they did for you guys, they'd do for us (although our sick penalty is already spelled out in a lower accrual rate for calling out sick more than 4 times in a rolling 12 month period, so we already have a penalty for it).

 

[scoreboardII]

They gave no heads-up on this, just hit us with this today.

This will obviously improve moral.

To let you in on how demonstrably bad this new plan will effect pilots and our requirement by FAR to remove ourselves from work, this new plan is called the "perfect attendance program".

 

[Dan Roman]

They gave no heads-up on this, just hit us with this today.

This will obviously improve moral.

To let you in on how demonstrably bad this new plan will effect pilots and our requirement by FAR to remove ourselves from work, this new plan is called the "perfect attendance program".

Holly crap! They want pilots to push the envelope when they are not feeling well and come to work?? I haven't said this in awhile (sorry Bubba) but that's really taking the "warrior spirit" too far!

 

[humveedriver]

They gave no heads-up on this, just hit us with this today.

This will obviously improve moral.

To let you in on how demonstrably bad this new plan will effect pilots and our requirement by FAR to remove ourselves from work, this new plan is called the "perfect attendance program".

Has SWAPA provided a response? I realize it may be a little early, but there does seem to be a clear conflict of interest.

 

[slaquer5]

Has SWAPA provided a response? I realize it may be a little early, but there does seem to be a clear conflict of interest.

Now that's funny.


I think SWAPA is packing for another trip to Paris .

 

[jonjuan]

..............................unregard

 

[Lear70]

Wow... talked to a friend this morning, he said it's on SWALife.

So if you go out on Maternity Leave, that counts against your perfect attendance. Likewise if you get hurt ON THE JOB, it counts against perfect attendance, as does Military Leave (which I'm pretty sure is going to raise some flags, can't discriminate based on military obligation - our military affairs National ALPA guys would be all over this in D.C. if that happened on our side of the partition), and Bereavement leave. So if my child dies, you're going to hose me further? That's SUPER special. :erm:

At least the minimum threshold for Flt Ops is only 76 TFP, not including Vacay.

I agree, getting penalized for being sick, having a child, losing an immediate family member, or going out on Mil leave isn't exactly helping people fly safe by NOT coming to work if they're really ill.

Like I said when all this went down with us 18 months ago, I truly, truly believe Southwest is moving more towards a traditional airline labor relations footing. Everything they have done since then, including the people they have hired to deal with labor issues, policy changes, etc, points to that. Hope I'm wrong... for all our sakes.

 

[Crash Pad]

I went to the message to the field in ATL last year and GK said he was going to do this and the crowd went wild.

Now you're shocked?

 

[Lear70]

I went to the message to the field in ATL last year and GK said he was going to do this and the crowd went wild.

Now you're shocked?

Didn't go to that, had to fly. I supposed I could have called in sick for it and gone...

That said, I don't remember anyone saying on here or the other board that he was going to do SPECIFICALLY this. I mean, seriously, some of those things are contentious legally, Mil Leave, FMLA, Jury Duty (last I heard that was COMPULSORY by the U.S. government) and OJI. Programs with government oversight that may not appreciate having negative action taken against the employee for a Federally-protected program.

I see this getting amended as soon as someone has one of those things, files a formal complaint with the oversight program that they're being penalized, and the company gets compliance forced.

Good idea for EXTRA benefits, bad idea to take something away for the above-mentioned exceptions. Just my .02 cents.

 

[humveedriver]

Read the SWAG blog and some comments under perfect attendance. Thanks to those SWA employees who vehemently support those of us who serve and work for the airlines. I think the concept is good. I haven't supplied an AT buddy pass in years because our route structure wasn't as convenient for my friends and family. So I would have preferred getting cash for uniforms or gifts. Sounds like worst case for reservists is you get 12 passes a year instead of 16. That's if you modify your schedule and don't meet the perfect attendance criteria. You fall into the military appreciation category; which is one pass per drill or annual training. I doubt SWA will get slammed with USERRA non-compliance. Bereavement seems to be a different issue. I like the concept of the rewards program, but still think it encourages people to fly sick, which is not good. I'm still trying to find the 76 TFP information?

 

[humveedriver]

Found the 76 TFP chart. Hopefully the unions band together and fix some of the short comings. As there are some. The minimum TFP is probably geared toward the flight attendants, who were dropping all their trips. Like scoreboard said this is a shotgun blast change in policy where the many pay for the actions of the few. Currently AT crewmembers are not eligible for SWA guest passes (that's the new name). But SWA employees can use their guest passes on AT flights. Thank you sir, may I have another.

 

[SWA Bubba]

It used to be worse.

When I started, it was called an incentive pass program, and it went per quarter. If you had perfect attendance for the entire quarter--no sick leave, maternity, OJI, etc.--then you got two passes (I think they were red back then). One occurrence and you lost out for the quarter.

People complained because of the inherent unfairnes of people who didn't work. We have some 400 flight attendants who don't work at all--they give everything away and/or put money on trips to get rid of them. So we had F/As working 120 tfp/month, every month, and calling in sick for one day who got no passes that quarter; while one of those who didn't work at all, getting their passes because they didn't have any work on their board to call in sick for. So they went to the system that ended this month: you had to work certain number of tfp or hours per quarter (averaging like 75tfp/month, or something, over the quarter), and then you got four passes instead of the old two. They also changed the name to "Buddy passes," and made them purple.

Now it seems like they're combining the two requirements--the old perfect attendance policy plus the newer minimum work requirement. You can still "earn" up to four passes per quarter, but now you can save up the points for when you actually need passes, or use them for other stuff as well. I think the word "incentive" is back in there somewhere.

Bubba

 

[PCL_128]

Blatant violation of FMLA and USERRA. They're just hoping that the unions won't challenge it. And they may be right.

SWAPA needs to get ready to start playing traditional labor relations hardball. The company certainly is.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Found the 76 TFP chart. Hopefully the unions band together and fix some of the short comings. As there are some. The minimum TFP is probably geared toward the flight attendants, who were dropping all their trips. Like scoreboard said this is a shotgun blast change in policy where the many pay for the actions of the few. Currently AT crewmembers are not eligible for SWA guest passes (that's the new name). But SWA employees can use their guest passes on AT flights. Thank you sir, may I have another.

Where did you see this? I've heard in the past, that the company wasn't going to make either side's buddy passes interchangeable with the others. The company even came out and said this with the rationale that it wasn't worth the IT dept's time to change computer code to allow this, because of the "short time" before the companies were merged (seeing as how it takes about 2 years for the IT dept to make anything happen).

Bubba

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Blatant violation of FMLA and USERRA. They're just hoping that the unions won't challenge it. And they may be right.

SWAPA needs to get ready to start playing traditional labor relations hardball. The company certainly is.

These passes are not a god given right or a negotiated item. It is a company policy they choose to give and legally could just take it all away.

Why do you care anyways? You should be filing out apps or going to school to do whatever it is when you leave Airtran in the next couple of years.

Clocks a ticking.