SWA plan for 15% ROIC

[PCL_128]

Ugh. The down side of taking waveflyer off the ignore list to debate guns is that I have to see his sugary sweet odes of love to GK. He's just an executive, wave, not your BFF.

 

[waveflyer]

We play golf

Oh- and he didn't furlough me or anyone in '09.
What did your beloved CEO do at the former AT back then?

How are the workouts coming ?

 

[PCL_128]

We play golf

Oh- and he didn't furlough me or anyone in '09.
What did your beloved CEO do at the former AT back then?

My CEO wasn't "beloved." He was just a CEO. No different than your CEO, the General's CEO, or anyone else's CEO. They're all just bean counters. If you think he really cares about you, you're dreaming.

 

[jonjuan]

My CEO wasn't "beloved." He was just a CEO. No different than your CEO, the General's CEO, or anyone else's CEO. They're all just bean counters. If you think he really cares about you, you're dreaming.

Oh, but he does care about you because he could go so many other places and get paid so much more money. :laugh:

 

[waveflyer]

You've met him then? Had a beer or 3 ?

He is a bean counter- then answer TFQ-

Why did your bean counter come up with a different answer to the furlough question in 2009?
Why when he was CFO did he reach a different conclusion after 9/11?

You're a troll struggling with losing your ALPA power base. Jesus, I'll critique GK w/ the best of them, but he's an above average airline CEO -to not admit that proves agenda, idiocy, or both.

How are those workouts going? You know they don't want a bulging double breasted suit, right?

 

[PCL_128]

You've met him then? Had a beer or 3 ?

Nope, never met him, except in passing at the various kool aid distribution parties.

Why did your bean counter come up with a different answer to the furlough question in 2009?
Why when he was CFO did he reach a different conclusion after 9/11?

Because he didn't have the cash cushion that your bean counter had. When you've got enough money sitting in the bank, you can start to weigh priorities of keeping up the appearance of a certain CULTure and not worry so much about having to burn the furniture just to stay alive. Would Fornaro have furloughed if he had been sitting on a few hundred millions more in cash? I don't think so. Different situations lead to different decisions. I'm no fan of Fornaro, but I'm no hater of him, either. Pretty much the same way I feel about GK. These guys aren't gods. They aren't your best buddy. They aren't your family member. They're just executives doing a job.

How are those workouts going? You know they don't want a bulging double breasted suit, right?

Actually, I've let the workout routine slip a little bit, unfortunately. I need to get back on it. Been too busy focusing on getting the hell out of here before the displacement to SWA comes along next year. And no, I'm not looking for a u-boat commander uniform. I've pretty much had my fill of the airline business. But I wish you the best of luck with it.

 

[HowardBorden]

They're all just bean counters. If you think he really cares about you, you're dreaming.

I can never follow the changes in logic along this line of thought. I so often hear that big brother GK came storming in uninvited to negotiations and fought valiantly for SWA pilots much to the detriment of ALPA members. If he doesn't care about his employees then what exactly happened? You simply can't fight both sides of the argument since they are diametrically opposed. So please tell me, which is it, fights for his employees or couldn't care less?

 

[waveflyer]

We all slip up, no matter how fit or athletic- just get back on it ASAP-
And good luck in your new ventures as well.

The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, he said:

“Man.
Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money.
Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present;
the result being that he does not live in the present or the future;
he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”

 

[maxblast72]

Because he didn't have the cash cushion that your bean counter had. When you've got enough money sitting in the bank, you can start to weigh priorities of keeping up the appearance of a certain CULTure and not worry so much about having to burn the furniture just to stay alive. Would Fornaro have furloughed if he had been sitting on a few hundred millions more in cash? I don't think so. Different situations lead to different decisions. I'm no fan of Fornaro, but I'm no hater of him, either. Pretty much the same way I feel about GK. These guys aren't gods. They aren't your best buddy. They aren't your family member. They're just executives doing a job.

Exactly, and this was one of the big reasons why the AirTran MC disagreed with you when you said we were guaranteed a DOH list from an arbitration panel.

Actually, I've let the workout routine slip a little bit, unfortunately. I need to get back on it. Been too busy focusing on getting the hell out of here before the displacement to SWA comes along next year. And no, I'm not looking for a u-boat commander uniform. I've pretty much had my fill of the airline business. But I wish you the best of luck with it.

I am sure part of your departure is to never have to fly with guys like me again. If you put half the energy into your new endeavors as you did your union work, you will do great. Just remember when you are working on multi-million dollar real estate deals that a negotiated comprehensive agreement is usually superior to having a third party determine the outcome.

 

[pilotyip]

My CEO wasn't "beloved." He was just a CEO. No different than your CEO, the General's CEO, or anyone else's CEO. They're all just bean counters. If you think he really cares about you, you're dreaming.

Yes but if you do not count beans, you may run out of beans, and then all the people who like getting beans on the regular basis will no longer get beans. The ultimate sign of caring fro your employes if keeping track of the beans. Now all that being said it is sometimes hard to understand some of the decisions the bean counters make.

If you do drop out of aviation, counting beans will be the most important part of any endeavor you go into next. If you do drop out please keep us posted on your progress, the grass may not be a green as you think on the other side of the cockpit door.

 

[PCL_128]

I can never follow the changes in logic along this line of thought. I so often hear that big brother GK came storming in uninvited to negotiations and fought valiantly for SWA pilots much to the detriment of ALPA members. If he doesn't care about his employees then what exactly happened? You simply can't fight both sides of the argument since they are diametrically opposed. So please tell me, which is it, fights for his employees or couldn't care less?

Fighting to benefit SWAPA was just another bean counter's move. That's why I've never taken any of it personally and have no animosity towards GK. It's just business. He had a choice: piss off 1/3 of the combined group, or piss off 2/3 of the combined group. Because no matter what, one of those two groups is going to end up really pissed off. He made the same choice I would have made. Had nothing to do with "caring."

 

[PCL_128]

Yes but if you do not count beans, you may run out of beans, and then all the people who like getting beans on the regular basis will no longer get beans. The ultimate sign of caring fro your employes if keeping track of the beans. Now all that being said it is sometimes hard to understand some of the decisions the bean counters make.

Nowhere have I implied a negative connotation with counting beans. I actually agree with you, for once. But it's a mistake to believe that he makes decisions based on his love for the average worker bee. It's delusional. Primarily because he has a fiduciary obligation to his shareholders, so he's required by law to think of them first. No matter what he says, the shareholders are first, and the employees are a distant second.

If you do drop out please keep us posted on your progress, the grass may not be a green as you think on the other side of the cockpit door.

Oh, I'll keep you updated, yip.

 

[canyonblue]

I can never follow the changes in logic along this line of thought. I so often hear that big brother GK came storming in uninvited to negotiations and fought valiantly for SWA pilots much to the detriment of ALPA members. If he doesn't care about his employees then what exactly happened? You simply can't fight both sides of the argument since they are diametrically opposed. So please tell me, which is it, fights for his employees or couldn't care less?

I was wondering the same thing. How can it go both ways?

 

[tomgoodman]

....he has a fiduciary obligation to his shareholders, so he's required by law to think of them first. No matter what he says, the shareholders are first, and the employees are a distant second.

Wise managers know that the two obligations are closely related. Long ago, a Delta CEO refused to lay off employees during a downturn, saying: "The time has come for shareholders to pay a small price in order to keep our team together."

 

[dicko]

Wise managers know that the two obligations are closely related. Long ago, a Delta CEO refused to lay off employees during a downturn, saying: "The time has come for shareholders to pay a small price in order to keep our team together."

Disregard. I just realized Tom was talking about a previous DAL CEO.

 

[PCL_128]

Wise managers know that the two obligations are closely related.

Yes, but that calculation is also a bean counter's calculation. It all ultimately comes down to counting beans, not to "LUV." No CEO of a publicly traded corporation has ever made a decisions just because he "loves" you.

 

[HowardBorden]

But it's a mistake to believe that he makes decisions based on his love for the average worker bee. It's delusional. Primarily because he has a fiduciary obligation to his shareholders, so he's required by law to think of them first. No matter what he says, the shareholders are first, and the employees are a distant second.

I absolutely agree that shareholders come first, but where you lose comprehension of how SWA operates is the link between how employees are treated and managed and in turn shareholder profits. So when you state that love for individual worker bee is delusional I can agree, but what you are missing is the bigger picture that fiduciary responsibility to shareholders ultimately begins by treating employees right and developing a strong culture. Many here state that SWA culture is dead or dying, but most don't actually work there. As someone who does actually work there, I will submit that on its worst day Southwest company culture far exceeds most airlines on their best day.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-04-03/business/35453344_1_culture-core-values-customers

A consciously developed customer-centered culture is a business advantage that will serve you for years — and inoculate you against competitive inroads. Consider for a minute Southwest Airlines and the lengthy list of would-be category killers that have tried to imitate it: United Airlines’ United Shuttle, Continental Airlines’ Continental Lite, Delta’s Delta Express and US Airways’ Metro-Jet.

What did these companies lack: Money? Name recognition? Hardly. They lacked Southwest’s relentless focus on culture, which none of its pop-up competitors was willing to slow down to emulate. And all are now bust.

This is why someone leading a business today — preparing a bright future for your organization and perhaps for the world — needs to focus not just on nuts and bolts, techniques and standards, but on culture.

Without a consciously created culture, your leadership won’t last beyond the moment you leave the building. Any vacation — or even lunch break — you take is an invitation for disaster: The inevitable complaint I hear from consulting clients and at my engagements as a speaker is this: “Employees act differently when there aren’t any managers around.” But with a great company culture, employees will be motivated, regardless of management’s presence or absence.

 

[redflyer65]

Plus the fact that Southwest employees own HUNDREDS of millions of shares in LUV stock.


....we are the shareholders, as well as the stakeholders.

 

[jonjuan]

Plus the fact that Southwest employees own HUNDREDS of millions of shares in LUV stock.


....we are the shareholders, as well as the stakeholders.

No different than any other company.

 

[redflyer65]

No different than any other company.

Completely disagree. I'd say more SW employees have a stake in the company than most others. Especially when it comes to US airlines.

 

[dicko]

Completely disagree. I'd say more SW employees have a stake in the company than most others. Especially when it comes to US airlines.

Prove it.

 

[PropPiedmont]

prove it.

espp.

 

[redflyer65]

http://esoppartners.com/blog/bid/89137/Southwest-Airlines-Employee-Ownership-Culture

Article is a little dated at 3 years old. But at 15% employee ownership, that's more than the largest institutional investor which is Primecap.

Total employee ownership is around the 115 million shares. How was the Airtran employee stock ownership before it was sold?

From the article....



We recently mentioned Southwest Airlines when discussing a Different Way to Quantify Your Ownership Culture. http://rady.ucsd.edu/beyster/newsletter/southwest.htmlSouthwest Airlines President Emeritus Colleen Barrett on the Power of an Ownership Culture discusses how employee ownership, Open-Book Management, and an ownership culture built on trust have contributed to the success of Southwest Airlines:
At any given time, 13 to 15 percent of Southwest's stock is owned by its employees through a profit-sharing plan with the option to purchase additional stock. "Employees feel like owners because they are owners," says Colleen. "Ownership is one of the things our employees are most proud of. How can you expect people to have passion and excitement for what they do if they're not owners? We've had flight attendants and mechanics leave Southwest as millionaires."

"Everything is negotiated," says Colleen. "We give employees the opportunity to criticize and question us. Southwest doesn't often need to conduct surveys or hire consultants to determine what we are doing wrong or well. The employees tell us face-to-face year-round. We have open books, we're transparent and we're all-inclusive in telling employees what's happening.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

speaking of surveys, were the full results of the last company wide survey ever posted anywhere?

 

[Roomwithaview]

Yes

speaking of surveys, were the full results of the last company wide survey ever posted anywhere?

Right here!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhohteHuyPM

 

[dicko]

I'd say more SW employees have a stake in the company than most others. Especially when it comes to US airlines.

You didn't address or prove prove any of the above contentions.

Regarding AirtTran stock. As a new hire I was given stock. I sold it when the stock more than doubled. My earnings were massive. I am a genius















before tax profit was less than $400

 

[redflyer65]

You didn't address or prove prove any of the above contentions.

Regarding AirtTran stock. As a new hire I was given stock. I sold it when the stock more than doubled. My earnings were massive. I am a genius















before tax profit was less than $400

Awesome move.

Did Airtran have a employee stock purchase plan?

 

[dicko]

Awesome move.

Did Airtran have a employee stock purchase plan?

Thanks. I'm also able to alter the outcome of horse races by betting. The horse I bet on will die from Ebola seconds after I put money down.

No idea about AirTran ESOP. I don't buy airline stock. It's best for all of us.

 

[maxblast72]

Yes, AirTran had an ESPP as well with a 10% discount. I accumulated $100/paycheck for 4 years and did quite well when Gary Kelly offered a 70% premium to the September 24, 2010 AAI closing price. Wish I had manned up and bought $500/paycheck for 4 years

I seriously doubt 15% of all outstanding AAI stock was owned by employees (although Fornaro, Leonard, and the other AirTran senior executives and board members definitely had their share).

 

[maxblast72]

Many good points discussion here. My $100 Million was based on 5th year F/O pay at 90 TFP per month +15 percent for benefits. I re ran it and it came up to $99 Million. I understand the seasonal swings in our manning here. I think we are slightly overmanned in Sept and Oct as well since almost no one flys on F/O reserve. I don't see any Capt downgrades coming because we are not upgrading at nearly the same rate that we are bringing people over the partition. The 10.2 number I stated was given to me by a captain. Maybe the number really is 10.8. The issue is that a small change in the manning model number per aircraft or number of aircraft radically changes the date of when the break even point is with retirements. If the number really is 10.8 and we stay at 700 aircraft we most likely Won't furlough. That being said if the number is becomes 10.2 or 10.5 OR we end up with fewer airframes the math changes to where a furlough looks much more likely. The things that concern me are 1. That there is no commitment for replacement aircraft for retiring 300s. 2. That there are so many AAI pilots not flying not just seasonally but anually.

Get your calculator GhettoBeechJet. You may need to do some recalculating soon.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013...1?feedType=RSS&feedName=innovationNews&rpc=43