SWA or DAL

[Pat Fabin]

REK,

I take it you worked for a DCI carrier...if so, you hardly have the experience to say what its like to work at Delta. You might have been part of the "family" but we all know that DCI carriers get treated like stepchildren.

 

[REK]

I am not saying what it is like being a Delta pilot. All I was saying is that the management team in place doesn't give me the warm fuzzies so to speak. I would rather have the guys at SWA that have proven they care about their employees and seem to have been making good decisions for company's heath and not just looking out for themselves. That is just my opinion and that is what I think the thread starter was looking for.

 

[tomstan65]

I interviewed at Southwest 7 years ago and didn't make it. I decided to stay in the military to retire and have now been hired at Southwest. Over the 7 years I had to wait, I watched many folks leave the military for "dream" jobs at United, American, Delta, and Northwest. Many of those guys are now back on active duty flying. I got a chance to ask a lot of questions about each airline. Several of the people I knew at legacy carriers are now on the line at Southwest. Without fail everyone I talk to says Southwest is the way to go. The folks who crossed to Southwest are kicking themselves for the years of seniority they missed. I believe in Southwest and look forward to a long career. That being said on my decision board only 32 out of around 150 were hired. If it was a decision between an offer at Delta and Southwest, I would hands down say go with Southwest. Since that is not the case take what you have at Delta, postpone the interview at Southwest (tell them you have a conflict which is true), and make your own choice after finishing training with Delta.

 

[Whine Lover]

Sir,

There is no difficulty in your decision:

- DAL - HISTORICALLY poorly Managed. In Bankruptcy.

- SWA - NONE of the Above.

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- DAL - Corporate Culture....Hmmmm.

- SWA - Need I say More?

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Pay issues? SWA.

Unless you live in ATL....No Brainer.


YKW

 

[SWA/FO]

and make your own choice after finishing training with Delta.

..........while you are busy paying off your credit card, cus Delta doesn't pay for lodging while you're in training.

repeat after me: Delta, Delta, Delta, no $$$ cattle $$$$$ call $$$$ for $$$ you. You are better then that....$$$$ you don't need their money $$$$.

 

[737 Pylt]

..........while you are busy paying off your credit card, cus Delta doesn't pay for lodging while you're in training.

repeat after me: Delta, Delta, Delta, no $$$ cattle $$$$$ call $$$$ for $$$ you. You are better then that....$$$$ you don't need their money $$$$.

So how do you go about paying off that heavy loan for that 737 type?

737

 

[jherk02]

Just curious why you dont see all the altern ego LCC airlines (ie Skybus, JB, AT, VA, and maybe more to come) all encroaching domestically as a threat to SWA over the next ten years?

Well, Skybus and VA haven't even flown yet. And even if JB and AT have a similar product, they just don't have the mass or the name recognition yet. The legacies used to be able to sell tickets based on their brand name. Not so much anymore. I think the only airline that has good name brand recognition is SWA.

When you can pick up the paper and routinely read that a new LCC has opened up a route and forced SWA out of a market...then I'll buy that there is a legitimate competator. This is my main point. If DAL competes with AA, CAL or United (the usual suspects) on a route (with no home field advantages), I don't know who will win out. If SWA decides to compete, my money would be on them every time. So for ACL's career planning, he should go with the guy that can still dictate the market...especially if he wants to live in Dallas.

10 years from now, sure one might be threat. But for career planning in 2007, SWA still has too much quality and mass and is uniquely good at what they do. Best case for DAL is that they can get back in the game and give a bunch of equals a run for their money.

It would seem to me that international is the place to be with Asia growing faster than any other economy and international landing slots working as a natural barrier to entry for new blood such as so called "LCC international operators" trying to get in.

I don't know the intricacies of international expansion. But it seems to me that it is just a business decision like anything else. I bet SWA will be able to find a way around the barriers when the time comes.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

1) If US Airways is making money now out of BK already I would say there is a very high probability Delta will emerge and be profitable in not too long as well

2) Dont be surprised when you see Delta bank a half billion dollar year after having shed so much operating cost after 911. I predict this will happen no later than three years from now in 2010. This will finaly put the pilots back in the drivers seat for negotiations again.

3) I have a hard time believing the 777 and potentialy 787 will pay less than the SWA 737 for very long. Prior to 911 wasnt the top pay on the 777 over $300 an hour at Delta? Food for thought anyway. SWA is a great operation and there are many positives things to be said about it but if you went on historical data going with the top player at any given time usually means you will be much lower on the totem pole later on.

4) My dad had a standing offer with TWA (they were the bomb diggity then) back in the sixties but for some reason (hes still not sure why) he stayed at a smaller operation. after 37 years of flying, one buyout and three mergers he ended up number one at NWA his last three years making a paycheck he never would have dreamed of (hes a very conservative guy with money). His pilot brethren over at TWA were by then making half his wage and ultimately as we all know TWA went under.

5) You wont know if you made the right choice until the end of your career but look at history...Good Luck!

1) I take an alternate view. The legacies are competing on cost and Delta will have to lower their's again. But it is a positive overall. Delta will not go away.

2) They need that kind of bank just to get back on their feet. It will be a couple of years of that before traction is regained. Airplane orders will suck a lot of cash. I personally think the traction will still be weak for a long time.

3) International ops subsidizes the higher cost parts of the legacies. Pay will come up, but I bet later and less than we think. If you talk pilot costs you should look at total costs and CASM's. I believe the biggest lesson from the past is company health related to CASM. When your operation has high costs the pilots could almost work for free and it would be too much. With the hedges almost null this year, you'll see how the cost issue will still come into play. Anyone can make money in the good times, its the bad times and recovery that count most.

4) I'm glad he made out. Some Morris Air guys are very happy SWA bought them. ATA, Kiwi and National brothers wish someone had bought them out. TWA got bought out too, just at the wrong time and under poor circumstances. "Waiting to get bought out" is a not how I want to play my career. Timing was good for those who retired in the '90s.

5) Very true.

 

[328dude]

So how do you go about paying off that heavy loan for that 737 type?

737

I did it in a month and a half. :beer:

 

[Bucky19]

General Lee,
You have some bad information about the SWA schedule. The system wide average legs/day is slightly less than 3. Remove Dallas and the average is 2.7 legs/day.
I haven't flown 5 legs in years and have never flown 6 in a day. Our contractual average workdays/month is 13.
You can easily work 13 days/month and make 200K.

Not sure where you're getting your information on schedules, etc.

Fly safe.