SWA or DAL

[General Lee]

Not the case....6 years ago was 2001. SWA was on track to hire a record number of pilots that year until 9/11 slowed things up. I don't recall SWA having any empty seats on day 1 of New Hire Indoc.

Tejas

7 years ago SWA captains were leaving for UAL. That is a fact.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Quimby]

Quite true.
I have never really wanted to go to SWA as weird as that sounds. I love the pilots and all, but hate the legs and the cattle care mentality. I do like the diversity that DAL has to offer. Now if they would open up the DFW base again all would be right in the world.

Listen to the General & yourself and take Delta.

If the General says SWA only flies 5-6 leg days, and you'll NEVER see another a/c type, then it must be true.

 

[Indapool]

"25 min turns and 5-6 legs a day most trips"

Man that is such BS
I haven't seen 5 legs in 3 years
I dont fly 5-6 legs
I don't fly 90+ hours a month
I don't work 18+ days a month
And I don't see enough 25 min turns

I fly 2-3 legs a day
I can fly 0 hours or 100 a month. It's up to me
I average 12 days a month
most turns are 30-35 min sked. More than enough to do whatever it is you need to do.

LBB? I've heard of it...haven't seen it in 4 years. ISP? Great hotel on the golf course..could be worse.
I've done plenty of international as a corp guy. Thought it was overated. But that's just me.
25 min turns? Hell yeah! Get me to the overnight or get me home early. Who wants to be sitting around the hub for 2 hours waiting for the airplane on the last leg of the day? I suppose you could have 1+15 ground time for each leg but then you end up with a 10+ hour day. screw that..I'lll take 2 legs.. 6+30 block..8 hours duty..pays 7.5
Get in get out go home. Period.

My question is what happens during the NEXT downturn? Will DAL put you on the street? WN is not immune to anything but I wouldn't bet against them.
This place isn't for everyone, you will work more over the next 20-25 years.

The secret for happiness is the flexability. Dont want to fly? Get rid of it. Dont like your bid days? Change them. Dont want to fly 5 legs? Trade your trip. Dont like 12 hour overnights? Trade the trip. Want to double your pay? Pick up more trips.
Good luck with your choice, it's a nice problem to have.

 

[General Lee]

Listen to the General & yourself and take Delta.

If the General says SWA only flies 5-6 leg days, and you'll NEVER see another a/c type, then it must be true.

Try actually quoting me next time. I said 5-6 legs MOST TRIPS. I bet there are some trips that have less. Great. And you will see the 737 for your career. Unless they order bigger, but so far that is doubtful, unless they get Space Shuttles....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Quimby]

Try actually quoting me next time. I said 5-6 legs MOST TRIPS. I bet there are some trips that have less. Great. And you will see the 737 for your career. Unless they order bigger, but so far that is doubtful, unless they get Space Shuttles....


Bye Bye--General Lee

oh....*MOST* trips. My bad.

"Unless they order bigger".....can I quote you on that? I heard Rockwell is firing up the Space Shuttle line again. Screw international! I'm going into orbit.:beer:

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Thanks for the input guys. It is a really difficult decision.
Not sure what I will do IF I get the SWA gig. Maybe I should just go to World. I hear that is a good place to be right now.

 

[Jolly Roger]

Thanks for the input guys. It is a really difficult decision.
Not sure what I will do IF I get the SWA gig. Maybe I should just go to World. I hear that is a good place to be right now.

OK, step away from the computer, you need a little sleep after that thought...

 

[BigMeat]

I was in your shoes but instead of DAL it was CAL PM if you want to discuss it.

Bigmeat

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Thanks for the input guys. It is a really difficult decision.
Not sure what I will do IF I get the SWA gig. Maybe I should just go to World. I hear that is a good place to be right now.

I could into this at depth, but the summary is as follows--

Between Delta and SWA your decision should have a lot to do with you living in Domicile or not. I'm assuming you've made as best a guess as you can on the viability of SWA or Delta going forward. If not, revisit that. You already have all the PIC you need so "taking a chance" on Delta is not so bad if you don't mind reentering the marketplace if things go south. Remember that upgrades will slow at both in the future. But I do think upgrades may be faster at SWA. BUT...don't assume pay and benefits will increase at Delta or stay high at SWA. Do look hard at expenses at each, as they will come out of your hide at some point in future negotiations.

Don't get wacky and throw World in with the decision. That option entails a lot of risk and not as good a deal pay wise. They don't pick up open time to make ends meet and seniority progression is very slow.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

7 years ago SWA captains were leaving for UAL. That is a fact.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You're right about that General. Overall smart opinion on SWA. But the 25 min turn thing is a positive, not a negative. pay is 6-7 hours per day. More days off per month.

Interntional is kinda like going to a strip club. Fun and intereting when you are young. A bother if you don't crave all that excitement anymore.

But it depends on how you do international. How long do you layover? SWA layovers go 14-18 hrs.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The World thing was a joke, but thanks.
I do understand that the SWA thing involves more work on the days that you do work. A 20 hr three day. No big deal I do a 21 hr three day followed by a 6 hr day line most weeks. Yes it does get old, but it pays the bills quite nicely at a regional.
DAL has some of that flying too. You are correct. I would love to fly long haul and ultra long haul if possible. I am not sure if being able to give my wife what she wants is worth waiting for that. DAL is in a position for kiss a$$ and take names. The have a very aggressive business plan and I think that they can make it as a stand along. They may choose not do down the road, but for now I think they can prosper.
The only negative I see about DAL is that I would be commuting out of DFW to ATL. This is bar none one of the most difficult commutes with Dallas closing in early 05. Tack on the fact that I will loose a decade of seniority on my pass bennies. It is not fun
I will of course interview at SWA and make a decision if one is to be made.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

7 years ago SWA captains were leaving for UAL. That is a fact.


Bye Bye--General Lee

You are correct. Two captains total. At least one called to see if he could come back.

And you complain about 25 minute turns? That is an eternity (there were several 15 min. turns when I was hires). You still don't get it. Last I heard most pilots don't get paid for sitting on the gate.

 

[PuffDriver]

The World thing was a joke, but thanks.
I do understand that the SWA thing involves more work on the days that you do work. A 20 hr three day. No big deal I do a 21 hr three day followed by a 6 hr day line most weeks. Yes it does get old, but it pays the bills quite nicely at a regional.
DAL has some of that flying too. You are correct. I would love to fly long haul and ultra long haul if possible. I am not sure if being able to give my wife what she wants is worth waiting for that. DAL is in a position for kiss a$$ and take names. The have a very aggressive business plan and I think that they can make it as a stand along. They may choose not do down the road, but for now I think they can prosper.
The only negative I see about DAL is that I would be commuting out of DFW to ATL. This is bar none one of the most difficult commutes with Dallas closing in early 05. Tack on the fact that I will loose a decade of seniority on my pass bennies. It is not fun
I will of course interview at SWA and make a decision if one is to be made.

One note off the beaten path on this trail: DO NOT take the interview at SWA, get the job, and then turn it down. It will close that door forever, according to my SWA buddies. Find a reason not to take the interview if you are not going to take the job...if offered.

 

[800Dog]

Deltoid here. Born and raised in the ATL, always wanted to fly for DAL and have enjoyed my time at Delta over the past eight years. Never even considered SWA. Not because I thought it was a bad airline. I did not want to commute and wanted options that SWA could not offer. I think I would be perfectly happy at SWA. I like the 737 and love quick turns. Nothing sucks more than long sits. I would interview with SWA and then make the decision. Either way, you will work with alot of great people and just enjoy the ride. Practice saying "wind check" and "we are going as fast as possible". Whichever one sounds most comfortable may help you with your decision If you end up at DAL, first round is on the general!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The world comment was mean as a joke. I do know a lot of people there that love it though, and make more than enough money.
I do understand what the SWA life style is like. I fly a 21 hr three day followed by a 6hr day line most weeks. It is a lot of work but the money is good for a regional. Now doing it for the next 30 years is a little scary. I do know that I am a very big fan of fewer legs.
I believe that DAL is on it was up. With its business model that is in place it will kick a$$ and take names. USA and B6 must be shaking in their boots about now. I have always wanted to do the ultra long haul and I know that I will get that at some point in the future at DAL. I am just not sure if making my wife live in a state that she hates is worth it. I have commuted and the DFW ATL commute is one of the worst in the industry, especially with no pass seniority. I am giving up a decade worth of seniority if I went to DAL.
Either way I am going to take the interview and make a decision if there is one to be made.

 

[800Dog]

The world comment was mean as a joke. I do know a lot of people there that love it though, and make more than enough money.
I do understand what the SWA life style is like. I fly a 21 hr three day followed by a 6hr day line most weeks. It is a lot of work but the money is good for a regional. Now doing it for the next 30 years is a little scary. I do know that I am a very big fan of fewer legs.
I believe that DAL is on it was up. With its business model that is in place it will kick a$$ and take names. USA and B6 must be shaking in their boots about now. I have always wanted to do the ultra long haul and I know that I will get that at some point in the future at DAL. I am just not sure if making my wife live in a state that she hates is worth it. I have commuted and the DFW ATL commute is one of the worst in the industry, especially with no pass seniority. I am giving up a decade worth of seniority if I went to DAL.
Either way I am going to take the interview and make a decision if there is one to be made.

Where do you live in ATL? Why does your wife hate it? I am not a fan of Dallas. I live in VA Highlands and love it. Not a fan of downtown ATL but, VA Highlands, B'Head, Sandy Springs, Dunwoody, Alpharetta, Midtown and E. Cobb are great places. What is the commute like from DFW to SLC ot LA? Good luck.

 

[WSurf]

You are in tuff pickle! Couple of folks at my airline have been hired at SouthWest without Types. Southwest gives you 6 months after the thumbs up to go out and get your type.
Unless you want to live near any of the Southwest bases, I would just save the Type money and go with the Delta thing!
Good Luck! And Congrats!

 

[anewunion]

Look at the facts:

SWA=Great Airline,Financial powerhouse

Delta=Good Airline,In BK, but with 3B in cash.

SWA hired 2000+ guys within the last 4 years.

Delta hired 11 within the last 6 years.

And Trust me, SWAPA was the biggest supporter of the age 65 rule.

You do the math.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Definitely interview at SWA while getting on at Delta.

Wait to get your type if you are still on the fence. After you get your type you will still have to wait a month or two for class.

You should be able to make up your mind in 6 months. You will see whether or not Delta has a great emergence from BK in that time. IMHO, I don't see Delta beating the pants off of JetBlue in that time, but it gives you a chance to see that happening. I foresee a more positive future for JetBlue and Airtran.


If you want to keep SWA an option as you give Delta a shot for a few years, go ahead. (I would rather stay at home in Dallas) Then decline the interview. Be prepared to reapply, with type and humility, if you need them. They will respect you more if you don't decline class.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I know I have looked at the numbers and when I would retire at SWA I would only be in the 64-66 percent. IE a long way from the top. It does not really matter though since they all fly the same equipment and get paid the same. It would just be a QOL issue. I do know that they have 131 more aircraft that need to come, but frankly I think that after that their rapid growth and business plan will hit a few potholes.
With DAL I would be in the top 15-30 on the seniority list. Even if we merged with NWA it would be the same since NWA has a very top heavy list. Upgrade would be about the same at either place. Somewhere around the 10 to 15 year mark

 

[anewunion]

Just remember that if you do get the job at SWA, and you don't take it, You close that door for life. Just like world, Jetblue, and whoever else you turn down. Eaither way I'll see you in class soon.

 

[SWA/FO]

Go to DAL, you dumba$$. Do you really need flightinfo to help you make the biggest mistake of your life?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Why do you say that SWA?

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

Why do you say that SWA?

Disregard him. Every airline has their 10% of jahgoffs. He is one of ours. Good luck with the interview at SWA. I would take SWA but I am biased. I have friends at DAL who have been through a lot in the last 6 years but still like their jobs.
You can easily make $55000 first yeat at SWA as well and do part of the flying out of Dallas. Line holder in Dallas as FO is 1 year + 9 months. RSV in Dallas in about 10 months from DOH.
Good luck.

 

[BVT94]

Why do you say that SWA?

He's just cranky from spending a winter in Detroit.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

In my humble opinion...

I think you are into the minutia of the choices when your focus should be further away. Making comparisons of these two airlines is quite difficult because they have different missions. SWA flies domestic versus DAL flies both. There is a good reason for this (Government). You will make enough money to retire at either airline as long as you make good financial decisions along the way. A retirement and top pay are ways to augment less than stellar financial planning, so I don't believe they should be used in the go/no-go decision unless your broker is E.F. Nutton.

As far as bases and markets to make a decision...YIKES! I would never make a decision on where to go based on where a US carrier flies today. The only exception to this rule is if you are moving to where the carrier is based. In other words, ATL-DAL and DALLAS-SWA. Any other cities can be changed dramatically in five years time. Moving a corporate headquaters is much more costly in many cases. Of course, this too is not a hard rule.

The seniority issue is the one thing that I believe is overlooked and yet the most important. As you said, you would be in the top 1/3 at DAL but only the middle at SWA at retirement. Seniority is the one thing that you cannot control except when making this exact choice on where to go.

In conclusion, I would choose DAL because of senority and the opportunity to fly both domestically and internationally. The pay and benefits are not great, but I can make good financial decisions on my own to take care of myself.

Good luck

P.S. If you don't intend to take the job at SWA, then I agree you should not waste their time or your future bridge.

 

[Pat Fabin]

I've been here at DAL since 2000, furloughed for 3. I've seen the company at its best, its worst, and right now we're somewhere in the middle. I truly believe there is a bright future for our new hires. BUT, a good friend of mine from the regionals is now a Captain at SWA...hired in 1999.

There is no doubt there is a ton of stability at SWA, but nobody can predict the future. You've done your own seniority analysis and I think that's a pretty good excercise in forecasting your future lifestyle. I will retire (God willing) at just under 30 on the seniority list here. If we never buy another jet, I'll be a 777 captain for 8-9 years, and an 767 captain for 10 before that. Sounds similar to where you are at. Heck, even if you decide INTL is not for you, you'll decide that at a young age and can hang out as a super-senior narrowbody captain.

Right now upgrade here is 10 years (NYC MD88). IF we get the mystical growth airplanes we keep hearing about, that will come down a bit. If it doesn't, upgrade will increase to probably 15 years. But if you have a 30+ year career ahead of you, who cares...after a while you'll still be making over 100k, flying your choice of planes, bases, and having a nice life.

I'm junior and really enjoy my life here at Delta. People are fun to fly with, the planes and mx. are great, the operation is generally well-run, etc. BUT, why not take the SWA interview and check them out too... at least when you finally make a decision you can feel like you left no stone uncovered.

Good luck!

 

[mach zero]

Quite true.
I have never really wanted to go to SWA as weird as that sounds. I love the pilots and all, but hate the legs and the cattle care mentality. I do like the diversity that DAL has to offer. Now if they would open up the DFW base again all would be right in the world.

Look at your avatar and reread this post. There is your answer. Please don't waste an interview slot at SWA if this is how you really feel.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Why do you say that SWA?

He's brainwashed....he can't help it.

 

[720persecond]

He's brainwashed....he can't help it.

What's up Mega ? How's ONT treating you ?