SWA New Work Rules?

[USNFDX]

what's wrong with you guys???? "Nice try" at what? I was asking a legitimate question there chief. The big bold type was a nice touch though, lol. Funny that your response had absolutely nothing to do with my question. I don't like alpa either. Make you feel any better?

I'll ask again why are you voluntarily giving concessions (if that's what they are) when the company is profitable. If you are voluntarily giving concessions does that mean your next contract will likely be concessionary in nature?

I'm envious of your current pay rates and work rules. I am not envious of having to fly with tools such as SWAFO and Kc81900.

Wait till you see the size of his (swafo)CHIP!

 

[PAPA FOX!]

Lowecur must be MIA. Thought he'd be one of the first to give us his spin on this!


PS: How do y'all like my new avatar?!!

 

[sf260pilot]

Stop the greed and think of the junior guys.

You are giving every other ALPA person here a real thrill. Someone at SWA who is upset. This will spread like wildfire and next to fall will be SWA. Then everyone on the thread will be telling WN pilot's "see how the mighty have fallin" Before you slam some "more productive" work rule "tests" you should talk to folks about cushy work rules at their airlines and the pay cuts that followed.

 

[canyonblue737]

for a few months (like 3 or 4) the line averages go up about .3 or something days per month meaning a few lines get an extra day of work... at an extra day of pay. at the same time we get rigging on open time and the ability to bid open time during vacations already paid for during the remainder of the test. the idea is to see which makes the pilots more productive, increasing the line average (company idea) or making pilots pick up through the greed factor of open time rigging (union idea). in any case it all goes away in 6 months and then the results can be used or not used in the coming section 6 contract negotations.

it will likely slow hiring in early 2006 due to being more productive but since the test will sunset in mid 2006 and we will still have the same amount of airplanes being delivered it will simply increase the amount of hiring needed a few months into 2006.

i don't know that i agree with doing this test before the section 6 but if this is a concession it isn't much of one and will be very short lived effecting only a small % of the pilot base who want to be effected (in general you can drop days easily, and not pick up if you don't want.)

 

[SWA/FO]

7S3W7A...is probably a newhire who use to be at a legacy carrier. You need to take your negative comments back to your original carrier.

USNFDX dude, you talking bout me? I'd rather have a CHIP then be a DIP...like you :crying:

Green, maybe I should spell it out for ya, I consider your statement, question above W R O N G....... does that help you?

 

[mdf]

He really should take his feelings to the SWAPA forum. Ranting on this board won't get any results, Heck he can even use his real name over there.

 

[SWA/FO]

That might take the fun out of it then?

 

[Luke's Dad]

Any definite word on delayed new hire classes? Patiently waiting and ready to give notice to my current employer.....

 

[F16TJ]

Luke's Dad...

Any definite word on delayed new hire classes? Patiently waiting and ready to give notice to my current employer.....

Hopefully, Chase will have something for us later this week. Kabul, myself, and a couple of Kahunaless lurkers (you know who you are ) are anxiously waiting to hear word. I'm hoping to be in class in Feb. After Feb 1, I have to start working for a living!

 

[mdf]

That might take the fun out of it then?

Yeah, I guess it would!


Just some thoughts aimed at no one in particular,

I guess the big debate is over the extra day of flying that junior folks will be stuck with. I don't see the big deal. When I was new I would pick up to help pay for my over spent lifestyle. I guess it won't be at 1.5, but come on. Pay is dropping every where you look, and to me any test that will keep the pay at current levels is worth a look. I feel silly even talking about this given the current state of the industry. I hope problems like these are the biggest ones SWAPA ever has to deal with. My advice to anyone who is getting wound up over this. Take the money, and by yourself something nice.

 

[ivauir]

He really should take his feelings to the SWAPA forum. Ranting on this board won't get any results, Heck he can even use his real name over there.

He can only go there if he is a SWA pilot - that seems highly unlikely.

 

[737tanker]

As far as classes my CP said definitely 2 in DEC and 3 in JAN, after that nothing has been decided.

 

[Mach 80]

Section 6 for SWA coming up. In order for the SWA pilots to get an increase in pay (now that there is no one else to point UP to) they will have to exchange some sort of productivity enhancement to help the company offset the higher pay rate. Of course if the pilots don't want any productivity enhancement in the next contract, they don't have to have any....but it will be at a price to them though.

From what I hear, most of the productivity increase will be from optional extra flying, including choosing a higher paying line. If too many guys get forced to fly more from this test, the union will hear about it and have more information to use for the future section 6 on what to have and what not to. Seems like a good idea to be prepared with informaion.

 

[Luke's Dad]

As far as calsses my CP said definitely 2 in DEC and 3 in JAN, after that nothing has been decided.

Thanks for the info. I think I just missed being in the mid Dec class.

 

[DH2WN]

He can only go there if he is a SWA pilot - that seems highly unlikely.

I'm an extremely junior pilot and pretty much get my info from asking Capts. I fly with and reading the opinions on the SWAPA board. I voted no on the new work rules because of some of the reasons 7S3W7A states. Although he is being an ass about his opinions, if you read between the lines, what he says, I believe, is essentially true. If we reduce the days off on 1 of every 10 lines, which lines are going to be reduced? If the lines have extra high block then the senior guys who want to fly will bid on those. However, if we continue to build lines with extra long breaks in the day then what is the incentive for anyone to bid those lines? Zero. So therein lies the problem. Those lines with an extra day of work but not attractive block will be passed down the bidding line to the junior folks. The extra day off allows more mobility to move schedules around to obtain higher block.

I understand the company wants productivity but I thought it was supposed to be daily productivity not monthly. Either way I'm happy to be here and am glad this is just a test period. First year pay is tough enough to live on. Now I have one less day to pick up 2nd year time to help get through the rest of my year.

Overall, the company has asked everyone to pick up open time to increase productivity. I don't believe we, as a whole, heeded their call to arms. Thus, we were forced to negotiate a compromise which required us to start this test period.

I would state this opinion on the SWAPA board but being new I don't believe it's appropriate. FNGs should listen and learn. I am shocked, though, at how many people "work the system" to maximize pay. I often wonder if people just flew their line and picked up trips for extra money would this all have happened. I do believe management's goal in this contract will be to close the loopholes that allow pilots to make 150+ TFP each month but block less than 100. Flame away but I hope they do. I'm all for an honest days pay for an honest days work. We have way to many pilots who exploit the loopholes and it will send us down a path that we don't want. I love that SWAPA and the company work together but if the contract language has to be tightened there will be less room for the give and take that has made this company as great as it is.

 

[SWA/FO]

We have way to many pilots who exploit the loopholes and it will send us down a path that we don't want.

What loopholes is that?

 

[FlyinGuy]

DH2WN,
It is so easy to drop or increase your pay here it is not even funny. The only thing that can be a challenge here when you are new is moving your days off. As far as "loopholes"...I guess since it is legal, it is to your advantage to know the contract and use it to improve your QOL.
Later...

 

[canyonblue]

What loopholes is that?

Lookin' for one my brother?

 

[7S3W7A]

What loopholes is that?

"Loopholes". It's a case of morality vs. greed. When senior guys drop all their trips and then comb the reserve board. They wait until the company is in a tough spot and have to DH a pilot from another domicile. They quickly pick up the phone and take the trip but request to be excused from the DH. They still get paid for it, of course. Loophole #2. You cannot pick up a reserve day from open time if your flight time for the week will exceed a said value. However, you can trade reserve days with other pilots. So the scam artists of this company team up and trade each others reserve days when they know they won't work because of 30/7. Causes us to lose reserve pilots makes others work more and costs the company money.

If you don't want to work then quit. Stop screwing the company out of money. Fly your line. Pick up trips but stop screwing everyone else.

Should I continue. You know the loopholes. You have exploited them. The contract is old and there are a lot of ways to increase pay. You call it legal. I call it morally wrong. It creates a glut for the company. Costs millions per year. Section 6 will close the loopholes and save millions. Good on them!

Morality vs. Greed, boys.

 

[TAZ MAN]

"Loopholes". It's a case of morality vs. greed. When senior guys drop all their trips and then comb the reserve board. They wait until the company is in a tough spot and have to DH a pilot from another domicile. They quickly pick up the phone and take the trip but request to be excused from the DH. They still get paid for it, of course. Loophole #2. You cannot pick up a reserve day from open time if your flight time for the week will exceed a said value. However, you can trade reserve days with other pilots. So the scam artists of this company team up and trade each others reserve days when they know they won't work because of 30/7. Causes us to lose reserve pilots makes others work more and costs the company money.

If you don't want to work then quit. Stop screwing the company out of money. Fly your line. Pick up trips but stop screwing everyone else.

Should I continue. You know the loopholes. You have exploited them. The contract is old and there are a lot of ways to increase pay. You call it legal. I call it morally wrong. It creates a glut for the company. Costs millions per year. Section 6 will close the loopholes and save millions. Good on them!

Morality vs. Greed, boys.

This is not an SWA pilot. Do not repond.