SWA hiring and international growth. From Gary

[Lear70]

That would be career suicide. Only 50% +1 of your pilots have to agree to anything. Our FOs make more than 90% of your Captains. I'm REALLY looking forward to arbitration. Since 98% of your pilots voted to walk away from your awesome carrier, ANY arbitrator is gonna see the 100% pay raises as windfall enough. Airtran should try to avoid arbitration at all costs.

Before you get TOO excited about arbitration, kemosabe, you might want to look at how recent arbitrations have gone. Very SPECIFICALLY, they've EXCLUDED monetary increases from having ANY bearing on the SLI discussion.

Seriously. That's fact, go look it up. You can start with DAL/NWA and keep going back 7-10 years. Every time, the money gets pushed aside as a basis for argument. The only thing that matters is career progression and relative health of the carrier.

Your Merger Committee should be communicating these things to you. We already have copies of all those decisions and how they apply... Therefore we feel pretty dang comfortable with our chances in arbitration.

g'night

p.s. Our pilots don't get to vote on the SLI. The voting members are the Merger Committee and our MEC. You can't win by instilling fear in our pilots, those with cooler heads have control and are giving our pilots the info they need to relax and let the process play out. It's set up that way to specifically PREVENT fear of the unknown from swaying votes.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

I do fly extra, but I TRY to do it smart, extra fly with DHs, VJA, etc. I can tell you I don't know ANYBODY here flying only 80 hours a month. It's not uncommon at all to get 130+ trips per month for lineholders.

Once again, YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE A NEW CONTRACT!!!! You're spending money you don't have. Even with the 30% raises you THINK you might get, your payscales are still lower than ours. BTW, our Section 6 opens again in a year. So the gap would increase again.

Saying that Airtran pilots are gonna lose money with this deal sounds just like a Congressman explain how deficit spending is good for the economy.

These numbers may make no sense to you now, but when we get our final contract in the next few months and the numbers work out close, it will make much more sense to you.

p.s. It takes about 4 years as a Southwest Captain to make that money back. That's what we give up in this transaction. Present value of money, the ability to invest it now, and 8 years of being a Captain. Not the most important thing in the world, but if I could have my 'druthers, I'd ruther be in the left seat than the right.

YMMV

 

[Lear70]

I do fly extra, but I TRY to do it smart, extra fly with DHs, VJA, etc. I can tell you I don't know ANYBODY here flying only 80 hours a month. It's not uncommon at all to get 130+ trips per month for lineholders.

Once again, YOU GUYS DON'T HAVE A NEW CONTRACT!!!! You're spending money you don't have. Even with the 30% raises you THINK you might get, your payscales are still lower than ours. BTW, our Section 6 opens again in a year. So the gap would increase again.

Saying that Airtran pilots are gonna lose money with this deal sounds just like a Congressman explain how deficit spending is good for the economy.

Patience, Bob. We'll have this conversation again in a few months at DOCC when the SLI talks are really spooling up and we'll see where we're at comparing contracts.

Until then, have a beer, since I can't buy you one in person tonight, and realize we're all gonna be OK.

 

[FCNelson]

I was hoping this thread would be about SWA hiring, as that is what this thread's subject entitles.

If you guys want to argue about seniority integration, there is another very-active thread on that exact subject.

FCN

PS - All the facts and numbers thrown back and forth here have fried my brain cells. Based on unofficial observations of friends' Facebook status updates from those who are at either SWA and AirTran, it is the Citrus guys who think they have won the career lottery, while the Southwest guys are sort of ho-hum, but welcoming none the less.

Good luck to all involved - hopefully the integration can be as painless as possible, and with some luck I'll be joining you guys in a couple years once hiring really kicks in.

 

[texman]

Lear,

We get paid trips per pay. I cant remember the exact formula. I get a guarantee of 90 tfp per month on reserve. They fly me about 55 to 75 block hours a month. I blow my guarantee mostly every month. I usually get paid about 105-112 tfp a month on average, and thats working 15 days a month. If you look on ACP, put 85-100 in the credit section that would be a close dollar amount.

Now if you hold a line then you can really make some bank because of the great flexibility in the schedule and what our contract brings you and I. I know that your negotiation team will be impressed with the details.

The trips are real productive. The average duty day is 8.50 hours a day. It's awesome. Work hard play hard.

 

[texman]

I just found out that SWA will inherit 2 billion worth Airtran debt and only pay 265 million out of pocket cash for the deal. Is this true?

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

AirTran's debt as of June 30 included about $280 million in convertible notes, according to a July regulatory filing.

The rest of "debt" is capitalized aircraft operating leases valued at about $2 billion.

 

[texman]

Thanks bro. By the way I am in the same boat as you. I have about 35 years left at SWA we will see how this all plays out.

 

[shagadelic]

Lear,

I think it's funny that you are putting so much stock into the "30% pay raises" that you guys are just bound to get, any day now. I have two responses to that: 1) Counting chickens that haven't hatched yet is like, well, "counting chickens that haven't hatched" and 2) If you actually realize those increases in your pay, it will only be because of the "leverage" that this acquisition by SWA has given you to your management (i.e. they don't want you killing their golden goose). As for your "financial loss" (again, not based on any reality, but what you hope happens in the future vis a vis those raises), well...you really need to call clear skies, 'cuz Son, you been smokin' the crack pipe. Coming to Southwest will be a financial windfall for all you guys - period, end of story. As for that not making any difference in arbitration, look up the arbitrated settlement to the USA/AWA dispatchers integration. Also, the inability to negotiate a contract for the last 5+ years, with the subsequent posturing to seek self-help and get your pound of flesh from a company that wouldn't likely survive a strike...well, that will probably play a part in the upcoming arbitration, too. I'll take our side in arbitration every day, but then again, I work for an airline that is at the top of everyone's career wish list, not for a glorified regional. And soon, you will too, as one of my F/O's.

Peace,
Shagadelic

PS Welcome to the Show!

 

[CHQ Pilot]

In the meantime, we would already have our Bridge Agreement bringing us up to Southwest pay (that comes WAY before the SLI), we'd keep our deliveries as planned, our pilots would upgrade on schedule into Southwest pay on our own fenced side of the house, and you'd operate us separately? And that's bad for us HOW?

I need to go over our M and A comments, but the way I understood things is that per our contract, the SLI will not seriously begin until SWAPA has a transition agreement with SWA. From the time the transaction is closed (sometime during the first half of next year for all the regulatory stuff), there is a two year window for AT to be operated separately in order to conclude an SLI (per the SWAPA contract). During that time AT would operate under the current AT contract and work rules. AT pilots wouldn't receive the pay or work rules until they became SWAPA pilots, which would occur after an SLI.

There may be something in the AT contract that says something different from your side, but the way I understood things is that AT pilots wouldn't receive SWAPA payscales until they became SWAPA pilots.