SWA hiring and international growth. From Gary

[contrail67]

yeah, but what does airtran bring to the merger?

717's

 

[fugghedabowdit]

So, when does the App open?

I asked a CP that question the other day. He said he didn't know yet.

 

[vixin]

It would be more then what you bring to the table. Just typing to fast and couldnt edit it anymore.

 

[Kharma Police]

It would be more then what you bring to the table. Just typing to fast and couldnt edit it anymore.

Okay fine, you don't want to be "graced by my presents" I guess I'll just bring the Silly Bandz to the Arbitrator then!

 

[SWA2000]

lear,

Relative seniority is out of the question. You are a 16 year old airline (that's questionable ie: valujet/airtran) we are a 40 year old airline. Relative seniority is not going to happen. Neither is DOH. Our merger team is made up of 5 fo's and 2 ca's. Junior fo's too. They have much too lose on this deal. My guess is the best deal that they will come up with is half your ca's bottom of our ca list, the other half ratioed into our fo list, and then your fo's stapled. Anything more won't pass on a vote here. Not sure if that would either. I know ya'll probably feel that you have much to gain in arbitration. If it went to arbitration and if swa pilots feel they were unfairly treated, I am sure we would fight it like the AWA/US deal. Then GK probably would shrink the AT operation. Ya'll need to think long and hard how your merger team approaches this SLI. I am not trying to slight any of the AT guys. I know you are all probably good guys just trying to support your family like I am. But I feel like SWA pilots paid a bigger price to be here. And I am guessing if an AT guy had the option to choose AT vs SW they would choose SW. I hope it all works out for everybody unfortuately these things seldom do.

 

[IAHERJ]

lear,

Relative seniority is out of the question. You are a 16 year old airline (that's questionable ie: valujet/airtran) we are a 40 year old airline. Relative seniority is not going to happen. Neither is DOH. Our merger team is made up of 5 fo's and 2 ca's. Junior fo's too. They have much too lose on this deal. My guess is the best deal that they will come up with is half your ca's bottom of our ca list, the other half ratioed into our fo list, and then your fo's stapled. Anything more won't pass on a vote here. Not sure if that would either. I know ya'll probably feel that you have much to gain in arbitration. If it went to arbitration and if swa pilots feel they were unfairly treated, I am sure we would fight it like the AWA/US deal. Then GK probably would shrink the AT operation. Ya'll need to think long and hard how your merger team approaches this SLI. I am not trying to slight any of the AT guys. I know you are all probably good guys just trying to support your family like I am. But I feel like SWA pilots paid a bigger price to be here. And I am guessing if an AT guy had the option to choose AT vs SW they would choose SW. I hope it all works out for everybody unfortuately these things seldom do.

Wow.... and prior to 9/11 just about everybody would have chosen AA/DL/UAL etc. over SWA. You guys sure do think highly of yourselves these days. Read the USA Today(10/5). I hope that you guys, seeing little to no growth over the next decade or two; will at least stop pushing to raise the retirement age. That is going to be your only source of movement for years to come. Feel that LUV

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

lear,

Relative seniority is out of the question. You are a 16 year old airline (that's questionable ie: valujet/airtran) we are a 40 year old airline. Relative seniority is not going to happen. Neither is DOH. Our merger team is made up of 5 fo's and 2 ca's. Junior fo's too. They have much too lose on this deal. My guess is the best deal that they will come up with is half your ca's bottom of our ca list, the other half ratioed into our fo list, and then your fo's stapled. Anything more won't pass on a vote here. Not sure if that would either. I know ya'll probably feel that you have much to gain in arbitration. If it went to arbitration and if swa pilots feel they were unfairly treated, I am sure we would fight it like the AWA/US deal. Then GK probably would shrink the AT operation. Ya'll need to think long and hard how your merger team approaches this SLI. I am not trying to slight any of the AT guys. I know you are all probably good guys just trying to support your family like I am. But I feel like SWA pilots paid a bigger price to be here. And I am guessing if an AT guy had the option to choose AT vs SW they would choose SW. I hope it all works out for everybody unfortuately these things seldom do.

They only way you can fight a binding arbitration (like US/AWA) is by claiming unfair representation by your union, followed by union change. Are you saying that SW pilots would vote out SWAPA if they are not happy with results of arbitration?

 

[ATLplt]

lear,

Relative seniority is out of the question. You are a 16 year old airline (that's questionable ie: valujet/airtran) we are a 40 year old airline. Relative seniority is not going to happen. Neither is DOH. Our merger team is made up of 5 fo's and 2 ca's. Junior fo's too. They have much too lose on this deal. My guess is the best deal that they will come up with is half your ca's bottom of our ca list, the other half ratioed into our fo list, and then your fo's stapled. Anything more won't pass on a vote here. Not sure if that would either. I know ya'll probably feel that you have much to gain in arbitration. If it went to arbitration and if swa pilots feel they were unfairly treated, I am sure we would fight it like the AWA/US deal. Then GK probably would shrink the AT operation. Ya'll need to think long and hard how your merger team approaches this SLI. I am not trying to slight any of the AT guys. I know you are all probably good guys just trying to support your family like I am. But I feel like SWA pilots paid a bigger price to be here. And I am guessing if an AT guy had the option to choose AT vs SW they would choose SW. I hope it all works out for everybody unfortuately these things seldom do.

SWA2000, you could put the Pope on your merger team and be in the same spot. It's gonna be up to an arbitrator...not any of us. AirTran guys are not gonna settle outside of arbitration in the spirit of brotherhood, only to get fukt in the pooper. So, grab some popcorn, recline your lazyboy, and watch the show. Have concerns? Vent them to your hotshot FO merger team.

 

[scoreboardII]

are you saying that sw pilots would vote out swapa if they are not happy with results of arbitration?

yes.....

It's gonna be up to an arbitrator...not any of us.

True, so why worry?

Vent them to your hotshot FO merger team.

Their actually quite good, but even better backed by these guys:
http://www.bredhoff.com/index.php

 

[NuGuy]

yes.....

If that's REALLY the case, the SWA guys will go down the same pariah path that the AAA guys have gone.

Are OK with that?

Nu

 

[scoreboardII]

If that's REALLY the case, the SWA guys will go down the same pariah path that the AAA guys have gone.

Are OK with that?

Nu

define this question please.

 

[Lear70]

lear,

Relative seniority is out of the question. You are a 16 year old airline (that's questionable ie: valujet/airtran) we are a 40 year old airline. Relative seniority is not going to happen. Neither is DOH. Our merger team is made up of 5 fo's and 2 ca's. Junior fo's too. They have much too lose on this deal. My guess is the best deal that they will come up with is half your ca's bottom of our ca list, the other half ratioed into our fo list, and then your fo's stapled. Anything more won't pass on a vote here. Not sure if that would either.

It certainly would NOT pass a vote here, either. Our MEC are mainly F/O's. Our LEC voting members are two F/O's and one CA who is a JUNIOR CA and whose spouse is an F/O here. They aren't going to vote themselves into that position and it would be a DFR violation if they did any such thing.

Today's posts are convincing me, more than ever, that it will go to arbitration. It simply will avoid the finger-pointing and lawsuits that might ensue.

I know ya'll probably feel that you have much to gain in arbitration. If it went to arbitration and if swa pilots feel they were unfairly treated, I am sure we would fight it like the AWA/US deal.

Good luck with that. Seriously. As has been said before, you'd have to get at least half your pilots to agree to DECERTIFY SWAPA (which I *HIGHLY* doubt will happen), then form yet ANOTHER in-house union (or go with Teamsters, since we're an ALPA carrier), then try to tie it up in court for years???

In the meantime, we would already have our Bridge Agreement bringing us up to Southwest pay (that comes WAY before the SLI), we'd keep our deliveries as planned, our pilots would upgrade on schedule into Southwest pay on our own fenced side of the house, and you'd operate us separately? And that's bad for us HOW?

I submit that this is *NOT* a great idea, not only from a culture-destroying perspective, but also as any kind of "stick" to bring us closer to your position. We've been working under that kind of environment for too long to even BLINK at it. We'll just sit back, pop some more popcorn, fly our trips, and go home.

Ya'll need to think long and hard how your merger team approaches this SLI. I am not trying to slight any of the AT guys. I know you are all probably good guys just trying to support your family like I am. But I feel like SWA pilots paid a bigger price to be here. And I am guessing if an AT guy had the option to choose AT vs SW they would choose SW. I hope it all works out for everybody unfortuately these things seldom do.

I hope your pilots do as well. We're not going to accept a downgrade for half our CA's and a staple for most of our F/O's. I sincerely hope cooler minds prevail at the table, however I sense more and more than anything other than arbitration is a pipe dream. I was hoping to avoid it, but more and more I'm believing that it's unavoidable.

 

[Dan Roman]

Uswapa!

 

[Lear70]

Uswapa!

Don't start... lol

 

[scoreboardII]

I was hoping to avoid it, but more and more I'm believing that it's unavoidable.

I think this goes to show that the law is really a hamper to anyone who thinks they can merge/acquire, whatever verb you use to join distinctly different pilot groups with different employee expectations.

Look at NWA/Delta: two like minded pilot groups, similar company size age upgrade etc then compare to AWA/Uair, young vs old, large vs small, international vs domestic.

Unfortunately, the AWA integration feels more like what SWA/Airtran have to look forward too. You have your side, we have ours.

Lear, we will be drinking beer in a year or three, but for now, we are competitors and lets let our teams get muddy for us.