SWA hiring and international growth. From Gary

[texman]

I just found out that SWA will inherit 2 billion worth Airtran debt and only pay 265 million out of pocket cash for the deal. Is this true?

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

AirTran's debt as of June 30 included about $280 million in convertible notes, according to a July regulatory filing.

The rest of "debt" is capitalized aircraft operating leases valued at about $2 billion.

 

[texman]

Thanks bro. By the way I am in the same boat as you. I have about 35 years left at SWA we will see how this all plays out.

 

[shagadelic]

Lear,

I think it's funny that you are putting so much stock into the "30% pay raises" that you guys are just bound to get, any day now. I have two responses to that: 1) Counting chickens that haven't hatched yet is like, well, "counting chickens that haven't hatched" and 2) If you actually realize those increases in your pay, it will only be because of the "leverage" that this acquisition by SWA has given you to your management (i.e. they don't want you killing their golden goose). As for your "financial loss" (again, not based on any reality, but what you hope happens in the future vis a vis those raises), well...you really need to call clear skies, 'cuz Son, you been smokin' the crack pipe. Coming to Southwest will be a financial windfall for all you guys - period, end of story. As for that not making any difference in arbitration, look up the arbitrated settlement to the USA/AWA dispatchers integration. Also, the inability to negotiate a contract for the last 5+ years, with the subsequent posturing to seek self-help and get your pound of flesh from a company that wouldn't likely survive a strike...well, that will probably play a part in the upcoming arbitration, too. I'll take our side in arbitration every day, but then again, I work for an airline that is at the top of everyone's career wish list, not for a glorified regional. And soon, you will too, as one of my F/O's.

Peace,
Shagadelic

PS Welcome to the Show!

 

[CHQ Pilot]

In the meantime, we would already have our Bridge Agreement bringing us up to Southwest pay (that comes WAY before the SLI), we'd keep our deliveries as planned, our pilots would upgrade on schedule into Southwest pay on our own fenced side of the house, and you'd operate us separately? And that's bad for us HOW?

I need to go over our M and A comments, but the way I understood things is that per our contract, the SLI will not seriously begin until SWAPA has a transition agreement with SWA. From the time the transaction is closed (sometime during the first half of next year for all the regulatory stuff), there is a two year window for AT to be operated separately in order to conclude an SLI (per the SWAPA contract). During that time AT would operate under the current AT contract and work rules. AT pilots wouldn't receive the pay or work rules until they became SWAPA pilots, which would occur after an SLI.

There may be something in the AT contract that says something different from your side, but the way I understood things is that AT pilots wouldn't receive SWAPA payscales until they became SWAPA pilots.

 

[AFcitrus]

Lear,

I think it's funny that you are putting so much stock into the "30% pay raises" that you guys are just bound to get, any day now. I have two responses to that: 1) Counting chickens that haven't hatched yet is like, well, "counting chickens that haven't hatched" and 2) If you actually realize those increases in your pay, it will only be because of the "leverage" that this acquisition by SWA has given you to your management (i.e. they don't want you killing their golden goose). As for your "financial loss" (again, not based on any reality, but what you hope happens in the future vis a vis those raises), well...you really need to call clear skies, 'cuz Son, you been smokin' the crack pipe. Coming to Southwest will be a financial windfall for all you guys - period, end of story. As for that not making any difference in arbitration, look up the arbitrated settlement to the USA/AWA dispatchers integration. Also, the inability to negotiate a contract for the last 5+ years, with the subsequent posturing to seek self-help and get your pound of flesh from a company that wouldn't likely survive a strike...well, that will probably play a part in the upcoming arbitration, too. I'll take our side in arbitration every day, but then again, I work for an airline that is at the top of everyone's career wish list, not for a glorified regional. And soon, you will too, as one of my F/O's.

Peace,
Shagadelic

I don't often post on this forum but I feel the need to post at this time. I don't think I have ever heard a more ignorant diatribe. This is especially disturbing considering that you claim to come from the AF. Your ignorance and self-glorification are a black eye to every AF pilot whether in the airline community or not. You sir, are tremendously misinformed!

I understand that this is all a big surprise to you. It is a surprise to us as well. But bashing fellow aviators with ignorant and flawed information only serves to discredit yourself, and unfortunately, every other pilot who wears silver wings.

Who knows how this will turn out. Hopefully our merger committees can come to an agreeable SLI that will protect everyones' current and future career. If not, we will follow the process that has been put in place for just such an occasion. Once the decision is made, I hope we will all knuckle down, put our disagreements aside and set forth making SWA the devastatingly unstoppable airline that I know we can be.

Cheers

 

[waveflyer]

Lear... Seriously man- you don't allow any thread get hijacked into a AWA/AAA debate but it's alright when it's your SLI?

Besides that- you're taking the best of all scenarios working out at AT and a middle of the road to worst case scenario happening after the merger- it's a bad comparison and lime I said- this kind of debate is retarded on every level- you want to piss off all the Swa pilots- feed the fire you know will be there- that's your call- but I don't see how that helps your cause at all

 

[Sandhawk]

Why the heck not. All your FO's need to be stapled as well as more then half of your CA should be downgraded, heck they all should. I guess an $60-80,000 raise, better benefits, QOL, company, management etc. are worth nothing in your world.

I agree it will be arbitration and now its just another place go to work. You guys just want everything handed to you. Nothing like finding a lottery ticket on the floor.

Easy with the lottery ticket. I attribute that statement with a carrier called United.

Did Vixin come from UniTed? Seems more like a USAir pilot with that attitude.....

imp:

 

[JT12345]

Lear,

I think it's funny that you are putting so much stock into the "30% pay raises" that you guys are just bound to get, any day now. I have two responses to that: 1) Counting chickens that haven't hatched yet is like, well, "counting chickens that haven't hatched" and 2) If you actually realize those increases in your pay, it will only be because of the "leverage" that this acquisition by SWA has given you to your management (i.e. they don't want you killing their golden goose). As for your "financial loss" (again, not based on any reality, but what you hope happens in the future vis a vis those raises), well...you really need to call clear skies, 'cuz Son, you been smokin' the crack pipe. Coming to Southwest will be a financial windfall for all you guys - period, end of story. As for that not making any difference in arbitration, look up the arbitrated settlement to the USA/AWA dispatchers integration. Also, the inability to negotiate a contract for the last 5+ years, with the subsequent posturing to seek self-help and get your pound of flesh from a company that wouldn't likely survive a strike...well, that will probably play a part in the upcoming arbitration, too. I'll take our side in arbitration every day, but then again, I work for an airline that is at the top of everyone's career wish list, not for a glorified regional. And soon, you will too, as one of my F/O's.

Peace,
Shagadelic

Some of the Captains at Airtran make bout 190-200k a year. And they may lose money with the merger. You see we work hard here. It is why our costs r low too. It is why our loads are high in BWI, MCO, BOS, and MKE. It is why we are expanding in BWI and MCO, and getting airplanes. You are not. We are doubling our MKE presence and you are not. Call it what you will, but we are a thorn in your side for a long time now. SWA wants ATL and we are done fending off Delta on our own. They are just to big now. Win, Win for both of us, but don't say it is a financial windfall. Not for some here at Airtran.

Why dont you talk to some of us, and find out what is going on here before you open your pie hole.

After reading your post I want to know what kind of "culture" you have overthere because that is a far cry from what I have heard. Although I have not heard much recently, and have not been on here much.

Do you really work for SWA or are you just trolling this forum? Your a CFI right or a corporate guy I bet? I know... your a regional guy outta of ATL, and are really really worried if this happens. Maybe junior on the DAL list? They still got those flowbacks?

 

[Dan Roman]

Lear,

I work for an airline that is at the top of everyone's career wish list, not for a glorified regional. And soon, you will too, as one of my F/O's.

Peace,
Shagadelic

Pretty arrogant statement to say the least. I think most people in this industry who don't work at either airline see SWA and AirTran as pretty much as similar as say, NWA and DAL, both legacy airlines. SWA and AirTran do the exact same kind of flying and both are LCC's, what's the dif?
Sure seems like an awful large sense of entitlement among some of the SWA folks on here, is it because you bought a type to get hired and the AirTran folks didn't? I mean really, SWA got it's foot in the door by it's pilots working much longer hours for less pay and forgoing the type of retirement that most airline pilots used to enjoy and you bought type ratings to get hired. I think that's what they call shiny jet syndrome.
I hate to fall in the camp of the SWA bashers as I've met a lot of good SWA folks and you are a very good airline. (so was Pan Am once).
But you guys are really starting to come across as thinking you are the center of the airline universe. You're not, hell your management even tried to codeshare your international 737 flying, to Canada and Mexico no less!

 

[amF16]

Some of the Captains at Airtran make bout 190-200k a year. And they may lose money with the merger. You see we work hard here.


Thats the point........some of your top end Capts make 190K. Alot of our F/O's makes 190k. The disparity in pay is huge.

 

[bluestreaking]

Lear,

I think it's funny that you are putting so much stock into the "30% pay raises" that you guys are just bound to get, any day now. I have two responses to that: 1) Counting chickens that haven't hatched yet is like, well, "counting chickens that haven't hatched" and 2) If you actually realize those increases in your pay, it will only be because of the "leverage" that this acquisition by SWA has given you to your management (i.e. they don't want you killing their golden goose). As for your "financial loss" (again, not based on any reality, but what you hope happens in the future vis a vis those raises), well...you really need to call clear skies, 'cuz Son, you been smokin' the crack pipe. Coming to Southwest will be a financial windfall for all you guys - period, end of story. As for that not making any difference in arbitration, look up the arbitrated settlement to the USA/AWA dispatchers integration. Also, the inability to negotiate a contract for the last 5+ years, with the subsequent posturing to seek self-help and get your pound of flesh from a company that wouldn't likely survive a strike...well, that will probably play a part in the upcoming arbitration, too. I'll take our side in arbitration every day, but then again, I work for an airline that is at the top of everyone's career wish list, not for a glorified regional. And soon, you will too, as one of my F/O's.

Peace,
Shagadelic

PS Welcome to the Show!

Shagadelic,

Comments like this are a complete embarrassment to the rest of us. Why don't you take our union's advice and STFU!

Bluestreaking

 

[scoreboardII]

Lear, your doing a good job here, don't fall for the clowns trying to drag you into the mud.

Hey, here's an idea, lets just pick arbitrators right now, but they need to have been a Playboy centerfold within the last 10 years, college graduates, preferably contract law ( I know I know, I dream). Then we present our sides, tell them to go into a room and come out with a list in 60 minutes. Anyone who doesn't like the list gets a night with the centerfold of their choice.

Win-win.

 

[U2DRVR]

Lear, your doing a good job here, don't fall for the clowns trying to drag you into the mud.

Hey, here's an idea, lets just pick arbitrators right now, but they need to have been a Playboy centerfold within the last 10 years, college graduates, preferably contract law ( I know I know, I dream). Then we present our sides, tell them to go into a room and come out with a list in 60 minutes. Anyone who doesn't like the list gets a night with the centerfold of their choice.

Win-win.

Great idea!!!!

btw, I already don't like the list...repeatedly!

 

[scoreboardII]

Win-win