SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[bluesideup1]

Yes, for most AAI Captains, it is a pay cut going from AAI Capt to SWA FO. About $10K a year, plus the added cost of commuting to a distant base.

Yes, we should make more eventually, but it comes at a big cost . . . it requires downgrading for 3 or 4 years, then going through being a junior CA again, being on reserve, etc., and slowly regaining a lost decade.

I did all that back in 2004, the first time I upgraded to 737CA. I am currently a 737 CA bidding 52% in seat in ATL. I will regain this same position in 2030 or so, if I decide to keep flying past 60.

Ty what the hell are you talking about? Any captain that came over to SW could hold any base he wants. There is no added cost of commuting. As a matter of fact we have a lot more that are no longer commuting because of the purchase. That is what happens when you go from having 1 real base to 9 and soon to be 10. We have around 30 guys from AI based in DAL alone and just about everyone lives here otherwise there would be much better bases to commute to. With a lot more bases to choose from there are a lot less commuters compared to having to go to ATL so your full of !@#$ when you talk about people losing money to a commute as there are a lot less commuters to begin with.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty what the hell are you talking about? Any captain that came over to SW could hold any base he wants. There is no added cost of commuting. As a matter of fact we have a lot more that are no longer commuting because of the purchase. That is what happens when you go from having 1 real base to 9 and soon to be 10. We have around 30 guys from AI based in DAL alone and just about everyone lives here otherwise there would be much better bases to commute to. With a lot more bases to choose from there are a lot less commuters compared to having to go to ATL so your full of !@#$ when you talk about people losing money to a commute as there are a lot less commuters to begin with.

I'll excuse the stupidity of your post due to the fact it was written at 3:30 in the morning. :erm:

Look at the most recent transition award. Most of the Captains who live in or near a SWA base, and wanted to leave, have left.

The 717CA - SWAFO transitions have gone so junior, that the next group of Captains transitioning to SWA will likely be forced (assigned in reverse seniority).

The 737CA - SWAFO classes had initially been going senior, as guys who live in base chose to go over and stop commuting, however, that has changed in the last few classes, and it is starting to go junior as well.

So, given that the fact that we still have 700 Captains on the AAI side, and the award is going junior, most of our Captains are choosing to remain on the AAI side for now, given the pay cut and the forced commute.

Did I make it clear enough for you, or am I still "talking out of my @ss", as you put it.

 

[Ty Webb]

Yeah, you did- but you did it at air tran- what about the extra 3 years it took me to get the SWA job after air tran offered me their gig as you were upgrading. Does that count for nothing?
We are part of the capitalist system in america aren't we?
Who guaranteed that you could get on with the young growing carrier and none of the risks of doing that (bankruptcy/liquidation- skybus anyone- acquisition) would come true??
Acquisition is a good thing compared to what can happen in this gig- just ask the pilots who got their pension jacked a year or two before they had to retire at 60. And hell, united guys were seeing 3-4 year upgrades less than 5 years before those pensions were stolen.

So you got a quick upgrade- good- who guaranteed you nothing would ever change after that?

The whole bitching deal is very airline immature. I thought I had arrived when I showed up to class at my legacy in 1999. And I can tell you the name of the guy who did guarantee us that we had our last job ever and were all millionaires now. Naive at best in hindsight.
So please- to those of us who have seen the dark side of this industry over generations, you sound like a blubbering idiot bitching about what hardships becoming a SWA pilot is bringing you.
Grab copies of flying the line I &II and Hard landings, then for all happiness sake- count your blessings, not your difficulties real or perceived. By most of your posts Ty, you're too good a dude to get wrapped up in that axle.

Wave, if I wanted to bitch, I'd be starting these discussions, not countering them. I'm simply trying to keep some of the facts straight. If a lie gets repeated enough, people believe it.

 

[humveedriver]

I'll excuse the stupidity of your post due to the fact it was written at 3:30 in the morning. :erm:

Look at the most recent transition award. Most of the Captains who live in or near a SWA base, and wanted to leave, have left.

The 717CA - SWAFO transitions have gone so junior, that the next group of Captains transitioning to SWA will likely be forced (assigned in reverse seniority).

The 737CA - SWAFO classes had initially been going senior, as guys who live in base chose to go over and stop commuting, however, that has changed in the last few classes, and it is starting to go junior as well.

So, given that the fact that we still have 700 Captains on the AAI side, and the award is going junior, most of our Captains are choosing to remain on the AAI side for now, given the pay cut and the forced commute.

Did I make it clear enough for you, or am I still "talking out of my @ss", as you put it.

Well. I'm pretty sure you and I had 12 years to move to ATL and never did. Must be some reason behind that. Unless you have family/roots in ATL, I would think having some more options to choose from would be a good thing. Short selling your house may be the biggest negative in the shuffle of the seniority deck..

 

[madjack]

I don't get it...2001 hire at AAI (2004 upgrade), now will become senior FO at SWA who will be able to hold ATL until he elects to upgrade...OBTW a Sr FO can make $160k ++ flying his 12 day weekday line...what are u bitching about...

 

[Ty Webb]

I don't get it...2001 hire at AAI (2004 upgrade), now will become senior FO at SWA who will be able to hold ATL until he elects to upgrade...OBTW a Sr FO can make $160k ++ flying his 12 day weekday line...what are u bitching about...

What I'm trying to tell ya, Sparky, is that my lines right now work 12 days a month, for a lot more pay than that . . . a lot more.

Not "bitching", as you put it, just trying keep it real . . . . there's a difference.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well. I'm pretty sure you and I had 12 years to move to ATL and never did. Must be some reason behind that. Unless you have family/roots in ATL, I would think having some more options to choose from would be a good thing. Short selling your house may be the biggest negative in the shuffle of the seniority deck..

ATL is one of the few places I get to easily from where I live. No direct flights to any SWA domicile, unless you count a two-hour turboprop flight on Gulfstream to MCO.

 

[madjack]

U can make a whole lot more as a Sr SWA FO...and when u upgrade u will make $220k++ just flying ur line...but u will have to leave the whine at home...hope it ain't ur nature.

 

[madjack]

Anyway, I'm sure the general will hand walk any disgruntled pilots app thru at DAL.

 

[waveflyer]

Anyway, I'm sure the general will hand walk any disgruntled pilots app thru at DAL.

I'm sure he will- just like he would have pushed for relative seniority for AT had delta stepped up and taken the 717 pilots with their airplanes

 

[zippy32]

That $160k is silly because I'm a 5 yr FO and I made $150k last year on 4 yr pay and not a single bit of premium. A senior AT guy coming over will make north of $200k. And every single FAT I talk to over here is confirming that fact. How many of those guys have you talked to Ty? They seem extremely happy.

 

[General Lee]

I'm sure he will- just like he would have pushed for relative seniority for AT had delta stepped up and taken the 717 pilots with their airplanes

I never said that. I look at what each airline brings to the table at the time if the merger. If the airlines are of equal size and bring both domestic and INTL flying with close sized planes, it might be relative plus or minus a few points based on longevity. Any arbitrator would allow some of the Captains to stay Captains, especially if they bring planes and orders to the newly merged carrier. I bet some of the senior guys at AT would have remained Capt at SWA or DL or any legacy if using arbitration. There would also be fences put up by those same arbitrators, depending on plane sizes (An Arbitrator fenced the 747 at NWA for 20 years to the Republic pilots). But, AT brought 737s to the SWA merger, and not giving Capt slots (at least some Capt slots) was not fair IMO, and I'm guessing many AT pilots feel the same way. As far as the 717s go at DL, those planes are being replaced at SWA by 737s, new and used. Sounds like nobody will be furloughed, which is good for everyone.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

What I'm trying to tell ya, Sparky, is that my lines right now work 12 days a month, for a lot more pay than that . . . a lot more.

Not "bitching", as you put it, just trying keep it real . . . . there's a difference.

Thanks for removing your number Ty. Senior FO's here make that year in and year out. That same 152/hr you were making as an AAI CA is remarkable the same number as the top SW FO payscale.

I completely agree with you about losing your base. There will be some on our side losing their base as well. Sucks for all involved in that regard.

 

[bluesideup1]

I'll excuse the stupidity of your post due to the fact it was written at 3:30 in the morning. :erm:

Look at the most recent transition award. Most of the Captains who live in or near a SWA base, and wanted to leave, have left.

The 717CA - SWAFO transitions have gone so junior, that the next group of Captains transitioning to SWA will likely be forced (assigned in reverse seniority).

The 737CA - SWAFO classes had initially been going senior, as guys who live in base chose to go over and stop commuting, however, that has changed in the last few classes, and it is starting to go junior as well.

So, given that the fact that we still have 700 Captains on the AAI side, and the award is going junior, most of our Captains are choosing to remain on the AAI side for now, given the pay cut and the forced commute.

Did I make it clear enough for you, or am I still "talking out of my @ss", as you put it.

Yes you are still talking out of your @ss. What forced commute are you talking about? Most captains that have come over have the ability to bid ANY base they want. This means the vast majority are now either not commuting or have a commute that is shorter than it was. NONE of the captains that come over will be forced to go to OAK or any of the other junior bases they will be able to bid ANY of the 9 bases that SWA offers.

Your argument is weak and predicated on the very few that will have a hard time transitioning either due to location or pride while the vast majority of Captains coming over will see a better commute or none at all. Your pay issue is also lacking when you are only able to look at the next 18 months and just like you said you still have over 3/4 of your captains at AAI so the worst case scenario they most likely won't but may have to take an insignificant pay cut (but a lot better seniority) for less than 18 months before they get a very large pay raise.

P.S. The other 50 percent of your group gets a huge pay raise to come over to WN.

 

[Crash Pad]

Ty left out one small detail. We don't know how senior SWA is going because only a very small group of captains have 737 FO awarded.

 

[Ty Webb]

If I'm talking out of my @ss it's because I 'm addressing someone who's head is in the sand. No sense continuing this... y'all have fun with it, I've said my piece. Schlong.

 

[madjack]

Peace

 

[bluesideup1]

If I'm talking out of my @ss it's because I 'm addressing someone who's head is in the sand. No sense continuing this... y'all have fun with it, I've said my piece. Schlong.

When all you can do is attack the messenger then we all know your argument is very weak.

I guess when you can't back up your wild accusations of forced commutes and all of them taking pay cuts just call me stupid and say that my head is in the sand.

I can see just about all those Captains that come over as senior FOs and when I look on their boards it does not look like they are suffering one bit. With the increase in relative seniority and bidding power. These poor captains will still be within a couple percent of pay where they were before they left AAI. Then in 18 months they will get a huge pay raise and over their career will make a lot more than they could have with AAI. When you find no sense in that then we all ask you please don't continue posting because the adults are talking now.

 

[waveflyer]

It does appear the angry air tran crowd tends to get a lot quieter when faced with reality.

You know, the "real" reality, not the "perceived" one-

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

You are an effin idiot wave....

 

[OldManPilot]

Ok, here is my question. I am a junior lineholding F/O at AT. I will be transitioning about this time next year. I have resigned myself to the fact I will need to be based in LAS, PHX or OAK. That is if I want a good quality of life (not on reserve). Not a problem since I choose to view it as another of life's adventures. My questions for planning purposes are: 1. When during training do you find out what your base will be? 2. Do we receive any moving expense $$? 3. How long are you given after training is complete to facilitate moving to your new base?

Thanks for your assistance.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

1. You will bid same month you start Trn.
2. Yes
3. Two years from the day you finished IOE.

 

[waveflyer]

You are an effin idiot wave....

Nuh- uh

You are

 

[Wesb737fo]

Forrest Gump revisited.

Salesman. " it was a (SLI) bullet that bit you wasn't it?"
Forrest. " Yes sir. Right in the buttocks. SWAPA said that was a million dollar wound, but Gary Kelly must have kept that money cause I ain't seen a nickel of it"

 

[madjack]

But, AT brought 737s to the SWA merger, and not giving Capt slots (at least some Capt slots) was not fair IMO, and I'm guessing many AT pilots feel the same way.

Just keeping it real: The first agreement had retention slots for ALL AT CPs. Under the second agreement, FAT CPs with enough global seniority can bid Left seat after 01JAN2015. That means that all post 01JAN2015 upgrades at SWA for a couple years at least will be FAT CPs (who did a touch and go as SWA FO).

 

[Ty Webb]

When all you can do is attack the messenger then we all know your argument is very weak.

I guess when you can't back up your wild accusations of forced commutes and all of them taking pay cuts just call me stupid and say that my head is in the sand.

I can see just about all those Captains that come over as senior FOs and when I look on their boards it does not look like they are suffering one bit. With the increase in relative seniority and bidding power. These poor captains will still be within a couple percent of pay where they were before they left AAI. Then in 18 months they will get a huge pay raise and over their career will make a lot more than they could have with AAI. When you find no sense in that then we all ask you please don't continue posting because the adults are talking now.

You seem to have a comprehension problem. Re-read what I wrote, because you certainly didn't understand it, either because you were too angry, or too drunk, or too drunk AND too angry. Either way, it sucks to be you. :laugh:

 

[Ty Webb]

It does appear the angry air tran crowd tends to get a lot quieter when faced with reality.

Well, I suppose that's one way to look at it.

90% of the people that used to participate in these threads are gone. Not because you've won them over, but because they've gown tired of reading the same b.s.

 

[madjack]

90 percent of the 28 angry trannys posting on here are gone...

 

[bluesideup1]

You seem to have a comprehension problem. Re-read what I wrote, because you certainly didn't understand it, either because you were too angry, or too drunk, or too drunk AND too angry. Either way, it sucks to be you. :laugh:

My comprehension is just fine and it seems like your argument much like you is clueless, weak and flawed when all you do is attack the messenger and not the message.

Anyway didn't you say you had said your piece and were done? I guess another falsehood. Now let the adults get back to talking.

 

[slaquer5]

Well, I suppose that's one way to look at it.

90% of the people that used to participate in these threads are gone. Not because you've won them over, but because they've gown tired of reading the same b.s.

Its called the rope- a- dope ,Ty, Muhammad Ali was famous for it