SWA DB- DING You suck!

[KCSO780]

Gimme a break! Come down off your holier-than thou tower! I fart in your general direction.

Let the GREEN smoke fly brotha............

 

[Widow's Son]

The work environment and overall job is pretty much the same at most carriers. SWA is very different. Not better, not worse, just different. Certain people will thrive there and others won't. It is better for both the carrier and the pilot that the right kind of people get hired. It is easier for SWA to hire when everybody else is hiring as well, especially if the "pay du jour" is higher elsewhere as well. They have to work much harder to find the right chemistry when they are one of the top draws that everyone is applying to.

If you doubt you can fullfill your childhood dream of being a pilot without flying a widebody to farflung destinations than SWA is obviously not for you. That doesn't make you or SWA bad.
If you would rather fly than sit around airports and see more to compensation than hourly rate then you understand some of the unique things about SWA. Ditto if you value the freedom to work as much or as little as you want.
If you see variable compensation as opportunity you are a SWA candidate, if you see it as risk, you are not.

The SWA interviewers use time honed methods to determine who understands and appreciates the uniqueness of SWA vs those just saying what they think wants to be heard or are only there interviewing because the other "real" airlines aren't hiring. None of this has anything at all to do with background and SWA hires more variety of pilots than anyone else.
The process isn't perfect, but overall, works very well. The reason that re-applicants have a higher success rate is because it shows SWA that the person truly understands what SWA is all about and wants to be a part of it.

 

[sf260pilot]

Did you know what you were getting yourself involved with.....knowing that they are only going to hire 20% of the applicants for the month and not choose you on the first try. Have you ever been interviewed at delta, fedex or alaska? Those places put you through the ringer and at delta if you do not get hired....see ya...do not think about re-applying in a year. I have friend who has been turned down at SWA twice and all he talks about is what he can do to improve his chances next time. The interview process at SWA is one of the most positive in the industry...it is also the most successful airlines in the industry...Good luck with whatever you choose to do in life.

 

[ForgedBlade]

The work environment and overall job is pretty much the same at most carriers. SWA is very different. Not better, not worse, just different. Certain people will thrive there and others won't. It is better for both the carrier and the pilot that the right kind of people get hired. It is easier for SWA to hire when everybody else is hiring as well, especially if the "pay du jour" is higher elsewhere as well. They have to work much harder to find the right chemistry when they are one of the top draws that everyone is applying to.

If you doubt you can fullfill your childhood dream of being a pilot without flying a widebody to farflung destinations than SWA is obviously not for you. That doesn't make you or SWA bad.
If you would rather fly than sit around airports and see more to compensation than hourly rate then you understand some of the unique things about SWA. Ditto if you value the freedom to work as much or as little as you want.
If you see variable compensation as opportunity you are a SWA candidate, if you see it as risk, you are not.

The SWA interviewers use time honed methods to determine who understands and appreciates the uniqueness of SWA vs those just saying what they think wants to be heard or are only there interviewing because the other "real" airlines aren't hiring. None of this has anything at all to do with background and SWA hires more variety of pilots than anyone else.
The process isn't perfect, but overall, works very well. The reason that re-applicants have a higher success rate is because it shows SWA that the person truly understands what SWA is all about and wants to be a part of it.

That is pretty much it!

As an ATA furloughee, they have interviewed a bunch of us and hired only a very few. We all know SWA is a great company, but we all sure loved the flying we got at ATA. Our interview process was extremely similar to theirs - the bulk of us could fit in well - but SWA probably sees that there are only two types of pilots in the world:

1. Those that have ALWAYS wanted to only work for SWA, &
2. Everyone else.

They obviously have some magic formula, and we may never know what it is, but it seems to work. There were a lot of great guys (and a gal!) in the interview group I was in early in July and we are waiting patiently. If I don't get hired, I won't see it as the end of the world, but it was a pleasant experience and I will move on - I hope! If SWA is what you want, then the best of luck.

 

[SWA/FO]

SWA will pick the right people regardless of their background.

We don't just give someone a job just because they went out and got a type. That my friend seems to be what your beeeeeouching about.

Hey Capt. Megadeath, why would you not want to work for SWA? Great people, great pay, great benefits and a great schedule. Lines vary from 15 (reserve) - 20 days off a month. Don't want any of that?
People here actually like going to work.

I'd say re-apply buddy, unless you have had enough, then don't apply. We are going to be hiring 4500 more pilots in the next 7-8 years.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Hey Capt. Megadeath, why would you not want to work for SWA? Great people, great pay, great benefits and a great schedule. Lines vary from 15 (reserve) - 20 days off a month. Don't want any of that?
People here actually like going to work.

I really hope for all my friend's sake that it stays that way. You are right. I would love work there to if it wasn't for all those people in the back.
You can put a lot more revenue on a cargo plane. Aw, $hit, it's a long story but I used to really want to work there.

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

The work environment and overall job is pretty much the same at most carriers. SWA is very different. Not better, not worse, just different. Certain people will thrive there and others won't. It is better for both the carrier and the pilot that the right kind of people get hired. It is easier for SWA to hire when everybody else is hiring as well, especially if the "pay du jour" is higher elsewhere as well. They have to work much harder to find the right chemistry when they are one of the top draws that everyone is applying to.

This statement is not entirely true. I know of at least two different people who have gotten hired at SWA that are nothing but aviation trash. One has the personality of a rock, the other is a egomaniac that we celebrate the day he left. On the other hand, I know of some extremely good people with types who have not gotten hired by SWA. Sad but true.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

First, War Eagle! No attitude here. Honestly. I'm just making an observation and at the same time asking why SWA would spend so much money and time. Someone answered that it doesn't affect that much. cool. That's enough for me.
I've had beers with SWA old timers that have been there a lot longer than any of us in this industry, and they ask the same question that I'm asking. They've recommended great candidates, but no luck. The fact is that the system is not flawless. You gotta at least admit that. If SWA is wasting so much money, wouldn't you be concerned? I would. But, apparently, it's not. That's great. I guess that rumor is not accurate.
It's hard to convey a tone through these posts, but don't judge so quickly.
War Eagle!

You got me, I won't judge. I'm glad you don't fall into the category I thought you were in.

Yes, I do admit the hiring process is not perfect. I thought I made that clear, but I was mistaken. I have friends who are more qualified than me get the thumbs down. I am not happy about it, am thankful I got something precious that I don't deserve and I don't really understand the reason why. I just guess what the reasons are for their failure and my success. Whatever the reason I don't pretend its fair, just is.

Same thing about the PFT. I don't think about it being right or wrong, just is.

In another thread we were talking about folks with interviews scheduled before 9/11 for September at SWA. I had friends in that situation go get types in Oct, Nov and Dec 2001. They then got interviews rescheduled for Jan and Feb 2002. Other friends who didn't or couldn't get the type didn't get an interview in 2002 and had to wait until 2004 for their next shot at interview. Is it fair? No. But I had the advantage of seeing what was going on and hurriedly got my type at the earliest opportunity and skipped ahead of non-typed buds.

Is Southwest wasting money? Good question. FedEx is wasting their ACPs' time meeting/interviewing candidates for interview and running a monthly pre-interview board to feed the hiring department interviewees. Maybe this saves FedEx money by reducing the workload on human resources. What would the ACP's do with all their free time anyway? Golf?

But...FedEx has a ton of ACP's in different airframes in Memphis to do this. Southwest does not have so many. ACP's make more than people department employees. So who is spending more money?

It's good to be making tons of money. Go FedEx.

 

[SWA/FO]

50 bucks per applicant can help offset some costs too.

 

[Newf Dog]

I'm told these are the stats for June interviews:

180 people interviewed

62 people "selected to continue"

It's an imperfect process. Great people get hired. Great people don't. Not so great people also get hired (unfortunately). It's the same at every carrier.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I know of at least two different people who have gotten hired at SWA that are nothing but aviation trash. One has the personality of a rock, the other is a egomaniac that we celebrate the day he left.

These people must be very good actors. But, just maybe, they have changed their spots and no one will ever know they were ever as you described.

You never know when people will wake up, smell the coffee and change where their lives are going.

 

[enigma]

These people must be very good actors. But, just maybe, they have changed their spots and no one will ever know they were ever as you described.

You never know when people will wake up, smell the coffee and change where their lives are going.

FlyBoeingJets, if your statement is correct, "just maybe, they have changed their spots and no one will ever know they were ever as you described", then that effectively proves that the "tell me about a time"-"past performance predicts future performance" interview technique is not a reliable predictor of personality. It is believed to be exceedingly rare that someone change personality. I'll be so bold as to say that someone who changes personality is most likely mentally ill. I do believe that one can change their outlook on life, I believe that because I have done so myself.

I'd like to see statistics about the pass rate for properly coached/prepared interviewees versus non prepped interviewees. If there is any difference between the fail rates favoring the prepped interviewees, that should indicate to a reasonable person that the process is not reliable.

I most certainly don't speak for coaches such as Albie, but I'll bet that they believe their service to be of value.

It all leads me to state again, If I ever get lucky enough to get another interview (long time readers will know that I've passed one SWA interview and failed another. The first time I passed the interview but didn't pass the DB).....IF I ever get another interview. I WILL BUY PREP!


good luck to everyone,
enigma

 

[FlyAuburn]

This statement is not entirely true. I know of at least two different people who have gotten hired at SWA that are nothing but aviation trash. One has the personality of a rock, the other is a egomaniac that we celebrate the day he left. On the other hand, I know of some extremely good people with types who have not gotten hired by SWA. Sad but true.[/QUOTE
 
Amen!

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

What I failed to mention in my post above is that I did interview at SWA in January of 2001. Would I have left Midwest for them? Yes. They shot me down. I was the only civilian out of 10 military guys. The most time there was 3,000 hours by some Navy guy who wasn't sure he wanted out of the Navy. I thought my interview went well. I interviewed one on one with 2 captains and a H.R. person. The female captain had a hard time with the fact that I would leave Midwest as an 11 year captain. I did not have a type.

I don't have any grudges with SWA. They are a class act and I would have loved to spend the rest of my career there. It was not to be. I am happy where I am and it would have taken me years to make up the money I would have lost had I gone. Would I go now, four years later. No.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Hey Gatorade,

You didn't really want to drink that Koolaid now did you?

No aspersions on the WN folks.

The PD is duplicitious in their intentions (Oh, we really LUV You!). I interviewed twice, and had numerous instances that this was illustrated. Not going to bother with a third time unless I really want to be entertained. It's just a game they play.

They (the PD) know who they are going to hire before the flood of all the applicants come in for the "interview". The actual individuals that they know they are going to hire are in fact the only one's they are really evaluating. For the rest of the "if your qualified you will get an interview" masses the process is just a sham. They just write it off as a business expense.

For the most part I hold most of the "working class" WN personnel in high regard. They work long and hard for what they get.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

It is believed to be exceedingly rare that someone change personality. I'll be so bold as to say that someone who changes personality is most likely mentally ill. I do believe that one can change their outlook on life, I believe that because I have done so myself.

I spit coke out of my nose when I read this. Mentally ill?? Then I guess we aren't talking about the same thing. One's outlook on life affects personality in a very BIG way.

We can just say that we don't understand each other. Otherwise I'm inclined to think you are saying you are mentally ill with your logic. Which I know is not intended. I don't think you are mentally ill either.

What are the warning signs of depression? Mood swings, personality changes, ....

 

[Whine Lover]

Gatorade,

Here's the deal:

- There are 10,000 qualified guys on the street.

- SWA interviews as many as possible.

- They choose who they want.

If that's 1% or 90% that's THEIR BUSINESS.

Typically, I believe, it's less than 10%.

Get over it.

Try again.

Lose the attitude.

WL

 

[ivauir]

They (the PD) know who they are going to hire before the flood of all the applicants come in for the "interview". The actual individuals that they know they are going to hire are in fact the only one's they are really evaluating. For the rest of the "if your qualified you will get an interview" masses the process is just a sham. They just write it off as a business expense.

This is so illogical that it hardly merits a reply, but you suckered me in ....

- SWA looks for ways to cut costs in every deptarment, every day, but they intentionally interview people they KNOW they won't hire?

- Why hire reinterviews then? Yet it happens all of the time.

- The "if you're qualified you will get an interview" days are gone for now. Yet the hiring percentage is about the same as it was. That tells me that there is something beyond numbers at work here, something that they can only determine face to face.

Freep, I am sorry it didn't work out for you. I am batting .750 for the freinds I have tried to help and I can't break the code on why some guys got turned down. So I sure don't have all of the answers, but I'll bet you all the tea in China that they only call in candidates who they think they'll hire.

Good luckand tailwinds to all ...

 

[OffHot]

Man this thread is taken on a life of its own. For those who don't like our process then don't apply, we a not forcing anyone. The process is what it is, no dirty secrets (like we already know who we a going to hire). No preference for military over civilian (and oh by the way if you haven't ever flown in the military don't rag about your hours vs. theirs because they are not the same good or bad---if your military and have never flown with an airline it also is not the same so don't think one is better than the other). The vast majority of us at SWA enjoy the airline and those it hires, and that is what truely matters.

 

[Jetjockey]

If an applicant made it to the DB, but was not selected, does that person go into some sort "maybe next year" pile? I have heard many people get selected on subsequent interviews. I'm wondering how difficult it is to get that second chance, when there are so many qualified people who have not yet interviewed.

 

[Hobiehawker]

Good point. I interviewed for that SWA Chicks in Planes scholarship a few years ago. I was so gung ho about it. It took me about a year to get over it when I didn't get it. As it turns out, besides for the fact that it would be nice to be making $100K right now, I AM SO HAPPY THEY TURNED ME DOWN
/

So what are you doing now that makes up for the rejection?

Just curious.

 

[Falconjet]

She's going to UPS.

Hence the no more passengers in the sign off.

FJ

 

[Hobiehawker]

She's going to UPS.

Hence the no more passengers in the sign off.

FJ

I missed she was in the pool. Congratulations are in order. I know thats what you really wanted. Not many are as fortunate as you.

 

[Falconjet]

I don't know that for a fact but that is what I have surmised from reading various comments from her and others on the UPS threads.

Got to keep and eye on what is going on with the competition.

FJ

 

[ivauir]

If an applicant made it to the DB, but was not selected, does that person go into some sort "maybe next year" pile? I have heard many people get selected on subsequent interviews. I'm wondering how difficult it is to get that second chance, when there are so many qualified people who have not yet interviewed.

No there isn't a second chance based on one interview. That is the bad news, the good news is that they will interview you again (and again and again ....). I have never heard any numbers as to success rate for multiple interviews, but it is tough to beat dogged determination. It may seem unfair for someone to get multiple interviews while there are folks waiting for their first shot, but it takes a lot of guts to dust yourself off and try again when you've been rejected before ... I have a buddy who just had his second chance interview ... I am crossing my fingers but my phone hasn't rang.

 

[enigma]

It is believed to be exceedingly rare that someone change personality. I'll be so bold as to say that someone who changes personality is most likely mentally ill. I do believe that one can change their outlook on life, I believe that because I have done so myself.

I spit coke out of my nose when I read this. Mentally ill?? Then I guess we aren't talking about the same thing. One's outlook on life affects personality in a very BIG way.

We can just say that we don't understand each other. Otherwise I'm inclined to think you are saying you are mentally ill with your logic. Which I know is not intended. I don't think you are mentally ill either.

What are the warning signs of depression? Mood swings, personality changes, ....

"One's outlook on life affects personality"?
Say again?

I'm no psychiatrist, but I believe that a psychiatrist would tell you that personality doesn't change. That's what I first posted, and I firmly believe that to be true. Personality doesn't change. Attitude can change, outlook can change, motivation can change, but personality doesn't change.

regards,
engima

PS I just noticed your last line aobut warning signs of depression, the last time I looked, depression is a mental ILLNESS. You never know what affliction the APA has determined to be a mental illness or not, but I believe that depression still is classified as such. Maybe I'll google it and get back to ya. Oh yeah, NOPE I don't suffer from depression.

 

[MarylandONE]

Gatorade,

I'm sorry you didn't get the job but the way you expressed you disappointment is a testament to why you didn't get the job. Attitude is everything around here.

Good luck on your next attempt.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Sounds to me like the hiring process worked perfectly...

Mr. Scoreboard doesnt rant because the Government programed him not to.

 

[Chuck Yogourt]

Gatorade,

I'm sorry you didn't get the job but the way you expressed you disappointment is a testament to why you didn't get the job. Attitude is everything around here.

Good luck on your next attempt.

Sorry I have to say this MarylandONE but the paint job on your 737 avatar is one heck of an ugly airplane. Please tell me that it is not out in the system.

 

[flyer4hire]

Just watch that show "Airline" on A&E. It cured any desire I had to drive I mean fly a greyhound bus for SWA.

No thanks!