Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
SWA DB- DING You suck!
- Thread starter Gatorade
- Start date
- Watchers 49
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
Sailpilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2005
- Posts
- 214
mullet said:
MMMM...Free Lunch, good food, good conversation.
I too was on the DB in June, got the letter, started drinking, felt better while having outer body experience.
Long story short = Shi$ Happens and we'll have to swing for the fence again in 10months 1week and 3days.
While waiting= 3 parts Capt Morgan + 1 part Coke + 1wedge of Lime, stir and enjoy, repeat till horizontal position occurs.
Oh ya and go flying sometime.
Blue skies and tailwinds
Gatorade said:
No, lots of pilots have your reaction, they just don't want to piss anyone off by posting on an open internet forum. Do you realize that you just identified yourself to people like LuvChild? We know: when you interviewed, and that you weren't military. It will be pretty simple to narrow your id down. You may have even screwed some other June applicant who isn't so bitter.
Of course, as others have said, they are trying to put you at ease. But they are also LYING.
IF THEY WANTED TO HIRE YOU ALL, THEY WOULD HAVE JUST SENT YOU AN INVITE TO CLASS INSTEAD OF AN INVITE TO AN INTERVIEW.
I too get tired of this tired rhetoric from hiring processes and HR departments. I'm a big boy, I know that the process is intended to identify good guys and weed out less than good guys, so lay off on the "we want to hire you all" stuff. I'm with you on this one Gatorade.
You talk of being disgusted with the process, but I have to ask, honestly, .........could you do any better? I too feel that their process is somewhat disengenous, and the proliferation of interview prep companies leads me to believe that their process is manipulatable; but you should have realized that before you interviewed.
Let me tell you this, your post has reminded me of the importance of making sure that I am 100% prepared before I go for the interview. I may even pay a background check company to fake a call to my previous employers and recommendations just to make sure that they are as much on my side as I think they are.
Which brings up my real problem with airline hiring processes. You, the applicant sweat blood, jump through flaming hoops and offer to give your left nut to the company. You present yourself to them to be disected, probed and prodded. Then, after judging you to be acceptable in the "face to face" experience, they reject you (with no chance for counter point) after only a telephone conversation with someone who they can't see/don't know. It would seem to me, that they would at least give the applicant a follow up phone call after the recommend/ex-employer calls if there were any questions brought up during those calls. Otherwise, they are admitting that they give more weight to an ex-employers impersonal word than they give to the applicants face to face word. If I may suggest, since they give more weight to an ex-employer, why not just skip the face to face interviews and hire based upon your resume and background checks. It'd save them money and us the sweat produced in our interviews.
Love,
Calvin, or Hobbes, take your pick.
canyonblue737
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2005
- Posts
- 340
let me approach the hiring percentage issue from an entirely different perspective.
SWA is going to hire 300-600 pilots every year (ballpark: 450.) everyone knows this when they go to get types, when they apply etc. This number won't change based on the quality or lack of quality of applicants. While we may wish the SWA hiring rate was lets say 50-75% of folks that interview, that would mean only 400-1200 pilots get to interview every year. The rest would wait by the phone. Since SWA is interviewing closer to 2000 pilots a year doesn't that have a silver lining in that ALL 2000 have a chance? After all if you're sitting at home your chances are ZERO. Sure you could say you're out the hotel expenses (your travel to Dallas is free on SWA) and dry cleaning your suit... but what a chance!
While it is sad to see anyone not get the good call after interviewing, if you didn't understand the chances or the system going in it was simply from a lack of seeing how SWA has been doing it for years, right or wrong.
also while i think SWA encourages every single one of their new hire pilots to understand that their excellent previous flying experience is something to be proud of and a part of why they are on the property in the end it certainly isn't the only thing, nor the most important thing to SWA going forward once you are here. your resume does not get you this job nor the gleaming fact you flew a C-5, F-15, FA-18, 70 seat CRJ, or 747-400 in a previous life. maybe 7 time space shuttle pilot does the trick, but we only have one guy who can say that.
SWA is going to hire 300-600 pilots every year (ballpark: 450.) everyone knows this when they go to get types, when they apply etc. This number won't change based on the quality or lack of quality of applicants. While we may wish the SWA hiring rate was lets say 50-75% of folks that interview, that would mean only 400-1200 pilots get to interview every year. The rest would wait by the phone. Since SWA is interviewing closer to 2000 pilots a year doesn't that have a silver lining in that ALL 2000 have a chance? After all if you're sitting at home your chances are ZERO. Sure you could say you're out the hotel expenses (your travel to Dallas is free on SWA) and dry cleaning your suit... but what a chance!
While it is sad to see anyone not get the good call after interviewing, if you didn't understand the chances or the system going in it was simply from a lack of seeing how SWA has been doing it for years, right or wrong.
also while i think SWA encourages every single one of their new hire pilots to understand that their excellent previous flying experience is something to be proud of and a part of why they are on the property in the end it certainly isn't the only thing, nor the most important thing to SWA going forward once you are here. your resume does not get you this job nor the gleaming fact you flew a C-5, F-15, FA-18, 70 seat CRJ, or 747-400 in a previous life. maybe 7 time space shuttle pilot does the trick, but we only have one guy who can say that.
Last edited:
Jeff Helgeson
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2002
- Posts
- 1,046
Just an observation.
I have noticed a change over the past year or so in the hiring practice at SWA. This is only a random sample of friends that have applied with very good quals., checkairman, etc., good interview, etc. Then get turned down after the calls to their former employers and references go out. It used to be you were hired for the most part if the calls went out, but now it seems to be a common breaking point for many. It appears that there has been a slight change in the SWA hiring process.
It is a buyers market for pilot right now. You shake a tree and out falls 8 pilots fall out. It makes it hard to get improved compensation and work rules with so many resumes piling up.
Sorry you had a bad experience.
I have noticed a change over the past year or so in the hiring practice at SWA. This is only a random sample of friends that have applied with very good quals., checkairman, etc., good interview, etc. Then get turned down after the calls to their former employers and references go out. It used to be you were hired for the most part if the calls went out, but now it seems to be a common breaking point for many. It appears that there has been a slight change in the SWA hiring process.
It is a buyers market for pilot right now. You shake a tree and out falls 8 pilots fall out. It makes it hard to get improved compensation and work rules with so many resumes piling up.
Sorry you had a bad experience.
ATRCAPT
Livin' the...dream?
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2003
- Posts
- 490
Gatorade -
i feel your pain, sort of. Three years they have had my app and no call. I feel like they owe me the $8000.00 I spent on the type rating! Actually, I don't feel that way, I'm just discusted with myself for falling for all the hype. On top of everything I just interviewed at another airline who CLEARLY did not like the fact that I have a B737 type on my certificate and no line experience. It was like having a tatoo on my face that said "I want to work for SWA!" So, let's recap. SWA won't call me because I'm not a swinging dick military guy or an RJ captain, and other companies are wary because of the type rating! I CAN'T FREAKIN' WIN!!!
i feel your pain, sort of. Three years they have had my app and no call. I feel like they owe me the $8000.00 I spent on the type rating! Actually, I don't feel that way, I'm just discusted with myself for falling for all the hype. On top of everything I just interviewed at another airline who CLEARLY did not like the fact that I have a B737 type on my certificate and no line experience. It was like having a tatoo on my face that said "I want to work for SWA!" So, let's recap. SWA won't call me because I'm not a swinging dick military guy or an RJ captain, and other companies are wary because of the type rating! I CAN'T FREAKIN' WIN!!!
100LL... Again!
youwantapieceofme??
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Posts
- 1,533
Personally, I think that the problem with many people is that their goals are too specific, in other words they simply MUST fly for AA, or SWA or whatever.
I actually knew sever people who wanted to work at one PARTICULAR major or another, but could give no real clear reason why. The commute, pay, or advancement had no bearing on it according to them. They just REALLY wanted to work for UAL. Maybe they just like blue airplanes a lot?
Having such specific goals is a recipe for disappointment. I was offered every position I have applied for except two. One was a VERY sh1tty regional (a blessing in disguise), the other was a corporate position right after 911. Lots of applicants, many with substantial time in type, and the type rating (surprised I ws even interviewed).
In none of these cases was I ever desiring that job so much that not getting the offer would have been much of a disappointment.
You have to be your own man in this business and know that you are good at your job. Many airlines turn down great pilots and hire losers. Happens all the time. Personally, if I do a gret job at an interview and they are not smart enough to offer the position, then I would never apply again. Who wants to work for someone that stupid?
If you foul up the interview, then suck it up and try again, however.
I actually knew sever people who wanted to work at one PARTICULAR major or another, but could give no real clear reason why. The commute, pay, or advancement had no bearing on it according to them. They just REALLY wanted to work for UAL. Maybe they just like blue airplanes a lot?
Having such specific goals is a recipe for disappointment. I was offered every position I have applied for except two. One was a VERY sh1tty regional (a blessing in disguise), the other was a corporate position right after 911. Lots of applicants, many with substantial time in type, and the type rating (surprised I ws even interviewed).
In none of these cases was I ever desiring that job so much that not getting the offer would have been much of a disappointment.
You have to be your own man in this business and know that you are good at your job. Many airlines turn down great pilots and hire losers. Happens all the time. Personally, if I do a gret job at an interview and they are not smart enough to offer the position, then I would never apply again. Who wants to work for someone that stupid?
If you foul up the interview, then suck it up and try again, however.
gern_blanston
Airport Bum
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2005
- Posts
- 345
BenderGonzales
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2005
- Posts
- 859
I'm not saying that Gatoraid is one of these guys... BUT
Is it POSSIBLE that guys who -- in the mid 90s' -- were hired by Comair, Continental Express, Chautauqua, etc.. and paid for their training are SURPRISED that the $10,000 check didnt work THIS time?
I mean, if that is their only experience with airline hiring then it is only natural that they would be caught off guard.
In 1995 they paid $10,000 and found themselves in the very next SF340 or EMB120 class.
In 2005 they bought a 737 type for $8000 or so -- shouldn't it be just as simple? Buy training, start class.
Again, not saying Gatoraid was one of these guys. But there are a whole HECK of a lot of people whose only experience with airline interviews has been signing over a check from daddy. Their expectations may be slightly skewed.
Is it POSSIBLE that guys who -- in the mid 90s' -- were hired by Comair, Continental Express, Chautauqua, etc.. and paid for their training are SURPRISED that the $10,000 check didnt work THIS time?
I mean, if that is their only experience with airline hiring then it is only natural that they would be caught off guard.
In 1995 they paid $10,000 and found themselves in the very next SF340 or EMB120 class.
In 2005 they bought a 737 type for $8000 or so -- shouldn't it be just as simple? Buy training, start class.
Again, not saying Gatoraid was one of these guys. But there are a whole HECK of a lot of people whose only experience with airline interviews has been signing over a check from daddy. Their expectations may be slightly skewed.
100LL... Again!
youwantapieceofme??
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2002
- Posts
- 1,533
Just one follow up though in this string if you will, I have a few friends who happen to be fairly long timers at SWA. (Please don't hold the fact that Calvin considers them friends turn you against them, they don't know that I'm Calvin)
Back to the thought,,,,,,,,,, These pilots are worried about the quality of your newhires.
Back in the day, SWA was not a six-hundred pound gorilla, they weren't UAL/DAL nor AA, they were the underdog. The pilots were mostly glad to work there, but somewhat defensive because most of their peers (read their buds at UAL, etc) looked down upon them. In other words, they continually fought to gain respect, they worked harder and longer. There's nothing like the desire to overcome for motivation. Most SWA hires for the first twenty years or so, understood this and as such, maintained a healthy level of humility. They strove to overcome.
Now, it would appear that the PD has changed. Instead of hiring the overachieving underdog, SWA wants to hire the same politically savy, a-hole kissers that were in such demand at places like DL in recent years. \
Hey SWA I've got a tip. Just hire like you did fifteen years ago.
The pilots you hired then have been an integral part of your success. Why have you replaced your proven formula with the formula used by now failing airlines? (BTW, this is rhetoric, and not intended to imply that pilot hiring has anything to do with the failure of any current airline)
I'll venture a guess that you in the PD are so darned impressed that the waterwalking ring pounders who walked right past your AirInc booth in 2000 to get to a legacys booth are now lining up at your door, that you've convinced yourself that they're there because you are so special. Wrong.
In other words, Hey SWA PD, don't let the current job market go to your head. The kind of pilots you hired in 1995 were good enough then, so go after more of the same now. Let those who were too good for you then wait for a recall at their first choice.
You know I'm right.
Cal
Back to the thought,,,,,,,,,, These pilots are worried about the quality of your newhires.
Back in the day, SWA was not a six-hundred pound gorilla, they weren't UAL/DAL nor AA, they were the underdog. The pilots were mostly glad to work there, but somewhat defensive because most of their peers (read their buds at UAL, etc) looked down upon them. In other words, they continually fought to gain respect, they worked harder and longer. There's nothing like the desire to overcome for motivation. Most SWA hires for the first twenty years or so, understood this and as such, maintained a healthy level of humility. They strove to overcome.
Now, it would appear that the PD has changed. Instead of hiring the overachieving underdog, SWA wants to hire the same politically savy, a-hole kissers that were in such demand at places like DL in recent years. \
Hey SWA I've got a tip. Just hire like you did fifteen years ago.
The pilots you hired then have been an integral part of your success. Why have you replaced your proven formula with the formula used by now failing airlines? (BTW, this is rhetoric, and not intended to imply that pilot hiring has anything to do with the failure of any current airline)
I'll venture a guess that you in the PD are so darned impressed that the waterwalking ring pounders who walked right past your AirInc booth in 2000 to get to a legacys booth are now lining up at your door, that you've convinced yourself that they're there because you are so special. Wrong.
In other words, Hey SWA PD, don't let the current job market go to your head. The kind of pilots you hired in 1995 were good enough then, so go after more of the same now. Let those who were too good for you then wait for a recall at their first choice.
You know I'm right.
Cal
AlbieF15
F15 Ret/FDX/InterviewPrep
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 1,764
A few points from a coaches perspective....
Yes...the process can be manipulated...to a point. Good coaching helps, but there are no secret code words to success. We've averaged 75-80%..good numbers but we also get frustrated when someone we really like is in that 20-25%. Interviewing ain't a perfect science... You get 45 minutes with 3 strangers that define the rest of your life (or at least the next 12 months), and dispite the pretty smiles it is a VERY tough process.
The mil/civ thing irritates me. Lately, a lot of the guys who have gotten their b@lls crushed have been military. I've helped a whole bunch of Texas based regional guys be successful. So...if you are from a regional DO NOT BE INITIMIDATED BY SOMEONE WITH A DIFFERENT BACKGROUND...and to my fighter bros...stay humble...Express Jet pilots have the highest pk of any group I've coached at SWA. So when I hear some civilian guys say "its a military club..." I get a bit beaked, (but not Mozam Beeked for those in on the joke) because at FedEx and SWA there have been a LOT of sharp regional guys hired lately, and almost all of us know a pretty good fighter pilot who was shown the door at both companies. Lately, it seems the military guys think they are getting a rough deal if they are still flying in the reserves, and the civilian guys think the military guys get hired in larger numbers. As a coach, I can tell you the truth is its tough out there right now for everyone, and there is no "automatic" hiring.
While SWA and FDX were SOME people's first choice 95-00, a lot of very qualified guys given mutliple offers went with UAL, DAL, etc etc. Now things are different. It is true that perhaps there is a bit of " 'tude" now by some on the hiring panels, but I still think both companies have tried to just take the best of what they have available. It IS a tougher now to get on at FDX than in the past, and I imagine its the same way at SWA. We can long for the "good old days", but our wishing won't change the facts.
Yes...the process can be manipulated...to a point. Good coaching helps, but there are no secret code words to success. We've averaged 75-80%..good numbers but we also get frustrated when someone we really like is in that 20-25%. Interviewing ain't a perfect science... You get 45 minutes with 3 strangers that define the rest of your life (or at least the next 12 months), and dispite the pretty smiles it is a VERY tough process.
The mil/civ thing irritates me. Lately, a lot of the guys who have gotten their b@lls crushed have been military. I've helped a whole bunch of Texas based regional guys be successful. So...if you are from a regional DO NOT BE INITIMIDATED BY SOMEONE WITH A DIFFERENT BACKGROUND...and to my fighter bros...stay humble...Express Jet pilots have the highest pk of any group I've coached at SWA. So when I hear some civilian guys say "its a military club..." I get a bit beaked, (but not Mozam Beeked for those in on the joke) because at FedEx and SWA there have been a LOT of sharp regional guys hired lately, and almost all of us know a pretty good fighter pilot who was shown the door at both companies. Lately, it seems the military guys think they are getting a rough deal if they are still flying in the reserves, and the civilian guys think the military guys get hired in larger numbers. As a coach, I can tell you the truth is its tough out there right now for everyone, and there is no "automatic" hiring.
While SWA and FDX were SOME people's first choice 95-00, a lot of very qualified guys given mutliple offers went with UAL, DAL, etc etc. Now things are different. It is true that perhaps there is a bit of " 'tude" now by some on the hiring panels, but I still think both companies have tried to just take the best of what they have available. It IS a tougher now to get on at FDX than in the past, and I imagine its the same way at SWA. We can long for the "good old days", but our wishing won't change the facts.
stangdog
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2003
- Posts
- 12
Whatever!
So what Gatman, you did not win but you lossed. You really do not learn anything from life when you win a game but you learn much about yourself, your friends, life when you lose. Watch ESPN enough times like I do and you learn that lesson. Man I got hired by UAL then got furloughed 6 months later. Wanted to work for somebody else but they didn't call. Worked for Great Plains, went out of business. Boeing, laid off. SWA called, interviewed, sure everybody was nice, but I felt like Gretzky at 38, everybody was skating circles around me, had a bad day, but references were called, then the letter, oh well back to the Wylie Coyote ACME drawing board. You know crap happens. Don't sweat it man, you live in the greatest country in the world, this is not the feudal system, you can recreate yourself into anyone or anything you want to be. You have the right to be pissed, that's only natural, and the snipers FOs taking potshots at you, well we know quite a few great dudes and dudettes and losers, jackholes, etc who have been hired by X airline so whatever homies. So take a deep breath bro, this probably happened for a reason in the big scheme of things (heard that many times I guess!) and keep busy living because the future is bright in this free world we are fortunate to live in. Keep living the dream and yes the interview process is really just a silly crazy charade.
So what Gatman, you did not win but you lossed. You really do not learn anything from life when you win a game but you learn much about yourself, your friends, life when you lose. Watch ESPN enough times like I do and you learn that lesson. Man I got hired by UAL then got furloughed 6 months later. Wanted to work for somebody else but they didn't call. Worked for Great Plains, went out of business. Boeing, laid off. SWA called, interviewed, sure everybody was nice, but I felt like Gretzky at 38, everybody was skating circles around me, had a bad day, but references were called, then the letter, oh well back to the Wylie Coyote ACME drawing board. You know crap happens. Don't sweat it man, you live in the greatest country in the world, this is not the feudal system, you can recreate yourself into anyone or anything you want to be. You have the right to be pissed, that's only natural, and the snipers FOs taking potshots at you, well we know quite a few great dudes and dudettes and losers, jackholes, etc who have been hired by X airline so whatever homies. So take a deep breath bro, this probably happened for a reason in the big scheme of things (heard that many times I guess!) and keep busy living because the future is bright in this free world we are fortunate to live in. Keep living the dream and yes the interview process is really just a silly crazy charade.
J
jackbo
Gatorade said:
name one industry where the majority of interviewees are hired.
i hope like all hell that airlines are picky about who they hire. they are where they are because they hire losers.
just because the majority didn't get hired doesn't mean the process is flawed. grow up and get over it.
gern_blanston
Airport Bum
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2005
- Posts
- 345
Share this page
Latest posts
-
Question Any Other NXCub Drivers Out There?- Latest: lrobichaux
-
-
-
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
