SWA DB- DING You suck!

[Jeff Helgeson]

Just an observation.

I have noticed a change over the past year or so in the hiring practice at SWA. This is only a random sample of friends that have applied with very good quals., checkairman, etc., good interview, etc. Then get turned down after the calls to their former employers and references go out. It used to be you were hired for the most part if the calls went out, but now it seems to be a common breaking point for many. It appears that there has been a slight change in the SWA hiring process.

It is a buyers market for pilot right now. You shake a tree and out falls 8 pilots fall out. It makes it hard to get improved compensation and work rules with so many resumes piling up.

Sorry you had a bad experience.

 

[ATRCAPT]

Gatorade -

i feel your pain, sort of. Three years they have had my app and no call. I feel like they owe me the $8000.00 I spent on the type rating! Actually, I don't feel that way, I'm just discusted with myself for falling for all the hype. On top of everything I just interviewed at another airline who CLEARLY did not like the fact that I have a B737 type on my certificate and no line experience. It was like having a tatoo on my face that said "I want to work for SWA!" So, let's recap. SWA won't call me because I'm not a swinging dick military guy or an RJ captain, and other companies are wary because of the type rating! I CAN'T FREAKIN' WIN!!!

 

[100LL... Again!]

Personally, I think that the problem with many people is that their goals are too specific, in other words they simply MUST fly for AA, or SWA or whatever.

I actually knew sever people who wanted to work at one PARTICULAR major or another, but could give no real clear reason why. The commute, pay, or advancement had no bearing on it according to them. They just REALLY wanted to work for UAL. Maybe they just like blue airplanes a lot?

Having such specific goals is a recipe for disappointment. I was offered every position I have applied for except two. One was a VERY sh1tty regional (a blessing in disguise), the other was a corporate position right after 911. Lots of applicants, many with substantial time in type, and the type rating (surprised I ws even interviewed).

In none of these cases was I ever desiring that job so much that not getting the offer would have been much of a disappointment.

You have to be your own man in this business and know that you are good at your job. Many airlines turn down great pilots and hire losers. Happens all the time. Personally, if I do a gret job at an interview and they are not smart enough to offer the position, then I would never apply again. Who wants to work for someone that stupid?

If you foul up the interview, then suck it up and try again, however.

 

[gern_blanston]

I feel like they owe me the $8000.00 I spent on the type rating! ...
...SWA won't call me because I'm not a swinging dick military guy or an RJ captain, and other companies are wary because of the type rating!
I CAN'T FREAKIN' WIN!!!

Another really great attitude that I'm sure doesn't show during the interview.

 

[BenderGonzales]

I'm not saying that Gatoraid is one of these guys... BUT

Is it POSSIBLE that guys who -- in the mid 90s' -- were hired by Comair, Continental Express, Chautauqua, etc.. and paid for their training are SURPRISED that the $10,000 check didnt work THIS time?

I mean, if that is their only experience with airline hiring then it is only natural that they would be caught off guard.

In 1995 they paid $10,000 and found themselves in the very next SF340 or EMB120 class.

In 2005 they bought a 737 type for $8000 or so -- shouldn't it be just as simple? Buy training, start class.

Again, not saying Gatoraid was one of these guys. But there are a whole HECK of a lot of people whose only experience with airline interviews has been signing over a check from daddy. Their expectations may be slightly skewed.

 

[SWA/FO]

Ding...you are free to move about the country!

 

[100LL... Again!]

I guess you could always surrender your type rating...

 

[:-)]

Just one follow up though in this string if you will, I have a few friends who happen to be fairly long timers at SWA. (Please don't hold the fact that Calvin considers them friends turn you against them, they don't know that I'm Calvin)

Back to the thought,,,,,,,,,, These pilots are worried about the quality of your newhires.

Back in the day, SWA was not a six-hundred pound gorilla, they weren't UAL/DAL nor AA, they were the underdog. The pilots were mostly glad to work there, but somewhat defensive because most of their peers (read their buds at UAL, etc) looked down upon them. In other words, they continually fought to gain respect, they worked harder and longer. There's nothing like the desire to overcome for motivation. Most SWA hires for the first twenty years or so, understood this and as such, maintained a healthy level of humility. They strove to overcome.

Now, it would appear that the PD has changed. Instead of hiring the overachieving underdog, SWA wants to hire the same politically savy, a-hole kissers that were in such demand at places like DL in recent years. \

Hey SWA I've got a tip. Just hire like you did fifteen years ago.

The pilots you hired then have been an integral part of your success. Why have you replaced your proven formula with the formula used by now failing airlines? (BTW, this is rhetoric, and not intended to imply that pilot hiring has anything to do with the failure of any current airline)

I'll venture a guess that you in the PD are so darned impressed that the waterwalking ring pounders who walked right past your AirInc booth in 2000 to get to a legacys booth are now lining up at your door, that you've convinced yourself that they're there because you are so special. Wrong.

In other words, Hey SWA PD, don't let the current job market go to your head. The kind of pilots you hired in 1995 were good enough then, so go after more of the same now. Let those who were too good for you then wait for a recall at their first choice.

You know I'm right.

Cal

 

[AlbieF15]

A few points from a coaches perspective....

Yes...the process can be manipulated...to a point. Good coaching helps, but there are no secret code words to success. We've averaged 75-80%..good numbers but we also get frustrated when someone we really like is in that 20-25%. Interviewing ain't a perfect science... You get 45 minutes with 3 strangers that define the rest of your life (or at least the next 12 months), and dispite the pretty smiles it is a VERY tough process.

The mil/civ thing irritates me. Lately, a lot of the guys who have gotten their b@lls crushed have been military. I've helped a whole bunch of Texas based regional guys be successful. So...if you are from a regional DO NOT BE INITIMIDATED BY SOMEONE WITH A DIFFERENT BACKGROUND...and to my fighter bros...stay humble...Express Jet pilots have the highest pk of any group I've coached at SWA. So when I hear some civilian guys say "its a military club..." I get a bit beaked, (but not Mozam Beeked for those in on the joke) because at FedEx and SWA there have been a LOT of sharp regional guys hired lately, and almost all of us know a pretty good fighter pilot who was shown the door at both companies. Lately, it seems the military guys think they are getting a rough deal if they are still flying in the reserves, and the civilian guys think the military guys get hired in larger numbers. As a coach, I can tell you the truth is its tough out there right now for everyone, and there is no "automatic" hiring.

While SWA and FDX were SOME people's first choice 95-00, a lot of very qualified guys given mutliple offers went with UAL, DAL, etc etc. Now things are different. It is true that perhaps there is a bit of " 'tude" now by some on the hiring panels, but I still think both companies have tried to just take the best of what they have available. It IS a tougher now to get on at FDX than in the past, and I imagine its the same way at SWA. We can long for the "good old days", but our wishing won't change the facts.

 

[Flybwoy]

Damn! I feel your pain! No words of wisdom here. Rejection is a Mutha Fucka!
They are a great airline to jumpseat on and I'll leave it at that!

HOLA!!

 

[stangdog]

Whatever!

So what Gatman, you did not win but you lossed. You really do not learn anything from life when you win a game but you learn much about yourself, your friends, life when you lose. Watch ESPN enough times like I do and you learn that lesson. Man I got hired by UAL then got furloughed 6 months later. Wanted to work for somebody else but they didn't call. Worked for Great Plains, went out of business. Boeing, laid off. SWA called, interviewed, sure everybody was nice, but I felt like Gretzky at 38, everybody was skating circles around me, had a bad day, but references were called, then the letter, oh well back to the Wylie Coyote ACME drawing board. You know crap happens. Don't sweat it man, you live in the greatest country in the world, this is not the feudal system, you can recreate yourself into anyone or anything you want to be. You have the right to be pissed, that's only natural, and the snipers FOs taking potshots at you, well we know quite a few great dudes and dudettes and losers, jackholes, etc who have been hired by X airline so whatever homies. So take a deep breath bro, this probably happened for a reason in the big scheme of things (heard that many times I guess!) and keep busy living because the future is bright in this free world we are fortunate to live in. Keep living the dream and yes the interview process is really just a silly crazy charade.

 

[jackbo]

Sounds to me like the hiring process worked perfectly...

a-freaking-men, my boy

 

[jackbo]

turbojet...blah blah blah. reread the post. you missed the point.

name one industry where the majority of interviewees are hired.

i hope like all hell that airlines are picky about who they hire. they are where they are because they hire losers.

just because the majority didn't get hired doesn't mean the process is flawed. grow up and get over it.

 

[gern_blanston]

name one industry where the majority of interviewees are hired.

...just because the majority didn't get hired doesn't mean the process is flawed. grow up and get over it.

A-freaking-men again.

 

[ATRCAPT]

Another really great attitude that I'm sure doesn't show during the interview.

Why don't you shut your hole. You have no idea how I interview.