SWA culture!

[Lear70]

So it would seem that swapa will define "long term harm" as the lack of movement brought about by the swa decision to purchase airplanes with pilots included. To define harm, you would need to know the wants of each pilot and how those would have been satisfied by purchasing just 140 airplanes. To accurately model this, a timeline for a 140 airplane purchase would need to be developed. To accurately build this timeline, substantial input would be required from swa management. I am sure that all of this work was completed prior to the aquisition of AirTran Holdings inc. and in preparation for the merger of airtran airways and southwest airlines. Gary Kelly will have to allow that harm will be brought to the swa pilots unless the timeline of expectations can be materially met in the merger process....sounds like a phased" bump-and-flush " combined with all movement going to the swa seniority list as it existed the DOCC....if it goes down this way it will likely be the blueprint followed as the rest of the small airlines(hawaiian, jetblue, alaska etc)....get eaten

Interesting theory.

So to make sure I understand you, you're saying that if an agreement can't be reached and it goes to arbitration, SWA management would be called to testify of hits model and hope than an arbitrator agrees?

Or are you saying that GK will interject SWA management into the Process of negotiating/mediating/arbitrating and provide the above model with the expectation that the AAI MC abide by it, thus basically controlling the SLI? If so, what was the purpose of signing a Process Agreement at all?

Secondly, would GK not ALSO have to acknowledge the model for projected growth brought about by the same purchase and the resultant increase in projected career worth to the SWA pilots as a result?

 

[redflyer65]

So it would seem that swapa will define "long term harm" as the lack of movement brought about by the swa decision to purchase airplanes with pilots included. To define harm, you would need to know the wants of each pilot and how those would have been satisfied by purchasing just 140 airplanes. To accurately model this, a timeline for a 140 airplane purchase would need to be developed. To accurately build this timeline, substantial input would be required from swa management. I am sure that all of this work was completed prior to the aquisition of AirTran Holdings inc. and in preparation for the merger of airtran airways and southwest airlines. Gary Kelly will have to allow that harm will be brought to the swa pilots unless the timeline of expectations can be materially met in the merger process....sounds like a phased" bump-and-flush " combined with all movement going to the swa seniority list as it existed the DOCC....if it goes down this way it will likely be the blueprint followed as the rest of the small airlines(hawaiian, jetblue, alaska etc)....get eaten

Tico,

The entire email from SWAPA NC is quite long and it defines (in various terms) what 'harm' is to the Southwest pilots, and the fact that management is on board with the definition and possibly the outcome to avoid it.

I didn't read any conciliatory comments in the entire message, like Ty said there would be. Interesting..

RF

 

[ivauir]

Or are you saying that GK will interject SWA management into the Process of negotiating/mediating/arbitrating and provide the above model with the expectation that the AAI MC abide by it, thus basically controlling the SLI? If so, what was the purpose of signing a Process Agreement at all?

The law is clear that the Company has the right to participate in the process. Nothing in the process agreement weakens that right. Hope that helps.

 

[kwick]

Neither Relative Senioity or DOH
harms any SW pilot career progression
or bumps him out of a Captain seat!

 

[shagadelic]

Neither Relative Senioity or DOH
harms any SW pilot career progression
or bumps him out of a Captain seat!

When I retire I'll be around number 100. If you put 400 guys above me, mostly younger than me , when I retire I'll be around number 500 instead of number 100. So, yes, I will be harmed. That's just me personally, compound that problem for the FO's. Sorry, DOH is a non-starter and Relative is dreamland.

 

[vetrider]

SWA has the numbers and horsepower to get what they want, or effectively what they want by hook or crook. The SWA guys can make the Airways east pilots look like rank amateurs in that regard, if it comes to it.

No one asked me, but in my opinion if SWA decides that the Air Tran guys got a little to much, and they don't like it, look out. Exactly what 'to much' is, is yet to be determined, but I believe I have the premise right anyway.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

When I retire I'll be around number 100. If you put 400 guys above me, mostly younger than me , when I retire I'll be around number 500 instead of number 100. So, yes, I will be harmed. That's just me personally, compound that problem for the FO's. Sorry, DOH is a non-starter and Relative is dreamland.

I would have had around 25 senior to me when I retired, how many should I have now? What's fair?

 

[kwick]

When I retire I'll be around number 100. If you put 400 guys above me, mostly younger than me , when I retire I'll be around number 500 instead of number 100. So, yes, I will be harmed. That's just me personally, compound that problem for the FO's. Sorry, DOH is a non-starter and Relative is dreamland.

How are you harmed in any way?

Do you lose pay? Do you lose your
Captain seat? Are you bumped out of your
domicile? NO!

 

[Cometman]

I would have had around 25 senior to me when I retired, how many should I have now? What's fair?

I assume you are with Air Tran. I don't know if you are aware but Air Tran was sold and bought by Southwest. Everything has changed for you because Air Tran is no longer here. It is like death. Telling somebody that if so and so was alive today they would be 100. Well, they are not alive. Just like Air Tran.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I assume you are with Air Tran. I don't know if you are aware but Air Tran was sold and bought by Southwest. Everything has changed for you because Air Tran is no longer here. It is like death. Telling somebody that if so and so was alive today they would be 100. Well, they are not alive. Just like Air Tran.

Just as WN is no longer the same after purchasing us. What's fair?

There's a fine line between no harm and unfair gain in seniority. Fortunatley, we aren't the one's having to make that call.

BTW, if we aren't integrated, we're still here. So far, we're not integrated, just sayin.

 

[Cometman]

Just as WN is no longer the same after purchasing us. What's fair?

There's a fine line between no harm and unfair gain in seniority. Fortunatley, we aren't the one's having to make that call.

BTW, if we aren't integrated, we're still here. So far, we're not integrated, just sayin.

SWA might not be the same because they bought you. They might have more aircraft and more locations but they are still alive. Air Tran has died. They are no longer here. You might be part of SWA after everything is complete but Air Tran is dead. SWA is not dead, they might be different but they are not dead. A SWA pilot can say where they would be at retirement but you cannot say that because your company was sold and is gone. What is fair is that SWA pilots are protected and Air Tran pilots get a fair deal. However, it is more important that SWA pilots are protected. Remember, you were sold and they bought you. It is 6000 to 1700.

 

[kwick]

I assume you are with Air Tran. I don't know if you are aware but Air Tran was sold and bought by Southwest. Everything has changed for you because Air Tran is no longer here. It is like death. Telling somebody that if so and so was alive today they would be 100. Well, they are not alive. Just like Air Tran.

I assume you live in the US and are
subject to the law like everyone else.

It will go to arbitration and it will
be implemented. Most likely relative
seniority.

You might be able to negotiate a DOH
deal with fences, if you were less greedy.

You may regret that you didn't take it.

 

[BlueBlood]

kwick,

What makes you so sure? Do you NOT have faith in the process both of your groups have agreed to?

 

[SWA/FO]

How are trannies harmed if they lose their Captain seat? Let me see, they aren't!!! They get a raise to be in the right seat!!!

 

[shagadelic]

I assume you live in the US and are
subject to the law like everyone else.

It will go to arbitration and it will
be implemented. Most likely relative
seniority.

You might be able to negotiate a DOH
deal with fences, if you were less greedy.

You may regret that you didn't take it.

Good luck with that...funny, our brand new FO's are hoping for the same outcome you are.