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SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

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Kharma Police said:
WOW!, I hear the same crickets too when somebody brings up DAL/NWA!!!!!
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IF they truely believed in what they are spouting, they should have NO problem telling it to the arbitration panel. The USAir East guys thought they had it in the bag, even when Nicalau told them before he ruled that "they might want to work it out one more time before he ruled---hint hint, wink wink...." The East guys still didn't bargain again, and eventually lost big time.


Now, I don't think you will get the same type of ratio DL/NWA got in arbitration, but it certainly will be better than what they (SWAPA) offer you. You are thankful for what gains you will get in the SWA contract, but you will work just as hard as they will to keep it. You are valuable, or GK wouldn't want to buy you. But seniority is FOREVER (or until you go Chap 7), and you don't want to give in because some SWA pilot tells you they fought hard for their contract (that they piggybacked on), and that means you deserve worse seniority. Let an arbitrator decide that. If the panel thinks you deserve less, they will tell you why in the report afterwards. I would go that route because it will give you a more fair route to your deserved seniority. Seniority is very important. SWAPA doesn't care what you think.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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redflyer65 said:
That's your arguement? Your trying talking about company items vs contract issues. Apples and oranges.

What does the AAI contract bring the Southwest group?

What does the Southwest contract bring the AAI pilot group? The differences are staggering, and very definable. Gonna be an interesting arguement to say the least.
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Doesn't matter. BTW, you are handling it like the USAir guys did, with SLI prior to a joint contract. How has that worked out for their morale? If you actually wanted to do it correctly for a smoother merger, you would get the joint contract first, and then arbitration for the SLI. The judges would look at what each airline brought to the table via planes, longevity, etc. That would be more fair, but you obviously don't want it to be fair. That is a problem. Delta had a better contract (30% higher wages) and the NWA guys had a pension. Even after all of that was settled with a joint contract, none of that was brought up in arbitration. The arbitrators just looked at what each side brought to the table, and decided. You still think Airtran brings little, when infact they bring enough for GK to want to buy them. That says something, Red.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Kharma Police said:
If you feel you've got a hot hand and the pit boss is in your corner, roll the dice my friend and demand arbitration! Just don't be pissed if you crap out.......
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KP,

The process agreement is designed to allow us to come to an agreement but has provisions if we can't.

Gup
 
General Lee said:
prior to a joint contract.

Bye Bye--General Lee
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Your leading with IT DOESN'T MATTER?

General, what are you smoking? We have a contract already, one of the better ones in the industry.

Why don't you list what the SW pilots gain from the AAI contract?

GK is buying AAI because he's getting them on the cheap and he's acquiring the COMPANY assets. Can you understand the difference between combining company assest VS the difference between two pilot contracts?

Your arguements don't hold water. Sorry.

RF
 
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General Lee said:
I have been flying a lot of Asia trips, and sometimes I don't have a good Wifi connection, or I would rather sit on the beach and relax. As far as whether or not you guys will go to arbitration, I don't know for sure, but if the terms are not acceptable to the majority of the AT pilots, I bet you will then. If you try to force too much of a ratio, or not allow a significant amount of their Captains to remain Captains in a combined list, then anyone would think they would choose arbitration. Back in the day Delta used the phrase "United plus 1" when we were negotiating the C2K contract, but before that we got new 777s without a payrate. When they showed up on property, Dalpa refused to fly them. Leo Mullin was Chairman at the time, and he decided to give in to Dalpa's demands, which was a raise for EVERY plane Delta had, and a big one. We forced their hand. Then United got their big contract, and we added to our 777 agreement to get an even bigger raise. So, part of it was from our own deal with the new 777s, and part of it was piggybacking off of UAL. Our 777 Captains made $315 an hour. (double that for greenslips on your day off) Granted, we didn't have that many planes, but those guys hit the lottery. And before you state that our payrates helped with our BK, remember we also had a Comair strike that cost $1 billion, 9-11, and then when thoughts of BK leaked out, 2000 Captains left with their lump sum pensions, and many left with $1 million or more. The payrates were a fixed cost. Your current payrates and benefits (like 90 trips min on reserve with 105 average for your pilots per month) amounted to more than what we had total, because we had furloughed pilots and were limited to what we could have per month back prior to BK. (maybe 75 hours a month max, and then the rest put into a bank) Our payrates were great, but we couldn't see them to max due to the pilots on furlough, which was fine with me at the time. That's the story.


Bye Bye---General Lee
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Well here is our story. So will you stop with your piggy back story BS.
http://www.swapaluv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/pilotpay.jpg

pilotpay.jpg
 
texman said:
Well here is our story. So will you stop with your piggy back story BS.
http://www.swapaluv.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/pilotpay.jpg

pilotpay.jpg
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That's actually only the last 20 years of the story. Let's see the full 40 and compare where WN was at 17 years compared to the tranny and industry average now.

Oh no, that wouldn't serve the same purpose though would it?

BTW, it wasn't until 9-11 and subequent bankruptcies that WN actually took off after a decade of stagnation (just based on the SWAPA LUV graph but more like 3 decades). Fortunately arbitrators will look at more than just the SWAPA LUV website.
 
Yeah and the senior dudes got aprox a $1,000,000 in stock for their trouble.
 
I really hope we can come to a negotiated settlement, but reality is it just isn't going to happen. In a situation like this, everyone is going to look after themselves. Understandably so, but you just wont be able to get a vote to pass. If one side likes it, the other side wont.
I am around 16% over at the tranny, and at DOH I would end up nearly 48%. I have around 500 captains below me. Do you truly believe they would downgrade 500 guys, and retrain 500 fo's to take their captain seat???

I am sure fences etc. will help with this, but glad I dont have the NC's job.
 
avi8tor007 said:
I really hope we can come to a negotiated settlement, but reality is it just isn't going to happen. In a situation like this, everyone is going to look after themselves. Understandably so, but you just wont be able to get a vote to pass. If one side likes it, the other side wont.
I am around 16% over at the tranny, and at DOH I would end up nearly 48%. I have around 500 captains below me. Do you truly believe they would downgrade 500 guys, and retrain 500 fo's to take their captain seat???

I am sure fences etc. will help with this, but glad I dont have the NC's job.
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Agreed. SWAPA would be slammed by their own people if they gave a fair deal. Look how fired up some SWA guys are on here now. What is it like in their cockpits? I bet it is worse. The only way to ensure fairness is to have someone or a panel do it with no stakes involved besides a normal fee. Clear your heads and just think about it. We're all HOPING for a negotiated settlement in the Middle East too, but that may never happen also. Don't just hope, just go for the arbitrated list.


OYS
 
Thanks for your great words of wisdom OY6.

What's your hard on against SW?

Your drivel makes you sound like a major league A-hole.

In the end, I want the AT guys to be happy also. I'm gonna work with them for the next 25 YEARS! So I've got real investment in their happiness. Really.

In the end, they will be Southwest pilots.

And in the end they will also be your competitor.

Hey, I get it now. Well done OY6 and Gen Lee too. I'm sure the AT guys get it too. Good luck trying to start fighting between future brothers. No matter what happens, I truly believe that we will ALL be very happy at Southwest in a few years. It may take a while for wounds to heal.

A good job at a great company with an outstanding paycheck is a heck of a salve!

I look forward to working with them. I'll even buy Dicko a beer! And Ty too if he gets back to flying!

Happy Easter- BD32
 
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Beechdriver32 said:
In the end, I want the AT guys to be happy also. I'm gonna work with them for the next 25 YEARS! So I've got real investment in their happiness. Really.

In the end, they will be Southwest pilots.

I look forward to working with them. I'll even buy Dicko a beer! And Ty too if he gets back to flying!

Happy Easter- BD32
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That's one of the healthiest attitudes I've seen on here and gives me hope that an agreement really CAN be reached. As long as BOTH sides are willing to give a little bit so that one side doesn't get royally hosed, I think the culture can be protected and we can enjoy long careers together without animosity.

Look forward to buying you a frosty beverage soon as well. :beer:
 
That's the thing.

An agreement WILL be reached. And I may not upgrade. And you might not keep your Capt seat. And I might not get a raise. And you might get displaced...and ...and...price of gas goes to $250 and we'll all be looking for a Walmart greeter job. Life will go on.

But in the end, we, as the newer bigger Southwest, should be better off.

And in the end OY6 and Gen lee will still be a competitor. It's one thing to have AT in your playground and kicked jB out, it might be another to have AT and SWA working together in your sandbox.

No wonder they are trying to divide a group trying to merge.

Enjoy the weekend- and Lear70, I'll take you up on the beer!
 
Beechdriver32 said:
I look forward to working with them. I'll even buy Dicko a beer! And Ty too if he gets back to flying!

Happy Easter- BD32
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Heh-heh . . . . There ain't no "if" . . . . Just a simple schlong reduction. So, you can see why I'm leery of getting kicked in that area right now. :laugh: :beer:
 

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