SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[Ty Webb]

With over a $1,000,000,000 in debt.

When my grievance gets heard, they're going to owe me at least $8,000. so you can say they owe $1,000,008,000.

 

[iluvflying]

With over a $1,000,000,000 in debt.

Well for only the next 6 or 7 business days. Then it gets acquired.

 

[27 driver]

funny,

I see your logic. I can't wait for SWAPA to show the QOL and biding power of even a JR FO has at SWA. But never the less your right about the wild card. I am curious if the arbitrator will consider the 717 smaller craft and class than the 737, or the same.

Tex, the 717 will carry the same amount as your 500's. I doubt it will be considered a smaller craft or class. Time will tell.

 

[27 driver]

Ok, so I understand- a 20 something 2001 new hire at AT who didn't meet SWA hiring mins can/should be placed above a 30 something 2001 WN new hire. Direct capt seat and a huge raise for the rest of the carrer. And the SWA guy only gets his upgrade delayed another few years. And thats fair.

Got it. Thanks.

And BTW, who said Staple was 'illegal'.
Unlikely, sure. But 'illegal', don't think so.

You assume that everyone at AAI can't get hired at LUV. With very few exceptions everyone here at the tranny meets and exceeds your hiring mins.

 

[Bob Dylan]

My sources tell me the lists will never be integrated unless it's a staple. Even that is a gift to the trannies because a couple weeks ago it was looking like preferential interviews only with no integration.

Take the staple trannies. You'd be crazy not to. It's likely the best you're going to get.

 

[GoodTimes]

Funny,
With fences, less than doh can easily happen. Fences will be a player in these negotiations, especially considering the different fleet type.

 

[iluvflying]

..................

 

[rajflyboy]

After all this is Good Friday

but come on now

There is no way that SWA is going to use 717's. How nieve are some of you peeps?

Look at the history here. It just ain't happening.

 

[funnyman12]

Gentlemen.....my point is that looking at decades of arbitrations there has never been an award of less than DOH. So statistically it most likely will be DOH or better...That is history. Of course this could re-right history. I believe there will be a solution that most will find acceptable. Time shall tell....nigh nigh guys.

 

[ASADFW7]

This thread is the number one topic on this site. Even more so than cal ual and dl nwa.

 

[SWA/FO]

Arbitrators don't use "history" - they decide on facts. Every case is different. Nothing like this has happened before. Before you chime in ****-face OY6.... this is different then NWA/DAL.

ALPA Tranny and SWAPA will make a deal:beer: . Oil $$$ is rising, get it done...

 

[scarlet]

Life is NOT going to change that much !! RELAX. If you are not happy, I hear USair is hiring, maybe AA.

Unions will work it out..GK will pay SWA guys a chuck of $ if approved.

If Arbitrators rule=out of everyones hands.

 

[scarlet]

how many aircraft coming in the next 5 years, I believe I heard almost 200=?

 

[PapaWoody]

The likely hood of an arbitrator ruling on an SLI less than DOH is extremely unlikely. I understand that many SW pilots feel that DOH would be a huge gain for an Airtran pilot. That is not the reality of fair and history of arbitrated SLI's show that less than DOH is not a possibility. If DOH was awarded the SW pilots would experience a significant bump on the combined list and Airtran pilots would take up to a 25% hit on the list. DOH should be the SW pilots hope....Find me an arbitrator whom gave an airline (non-bankrupt) less than DOH. You wont find it and it very most likely will not happen.

Not to be contentious, but AAI guys always try to ignore the SLI between Chautaqua and Shuttle America, which started the integration of the S/A guys at around 30% from the bottom and resulted in a large number of them stapled. When it's pointed out that the Chq/SA SLI was an arbitrated result that followed the guidelines of Allegheny/Mohawk, the stock answer is that "SA was in bankruptcy, so it isn't a similar situation". My answer to that is, yes SA was in bankruptcy, but the similarities in the contractual disparities (50-80% across the board on Sept. 27th) were there and are still there (30-50% across the board post-new contract), and SA at least had the excuse of being in bankruptcy as to why their contract didn't even come close to Chq's. And the contractual gains that were going to be enjoyed by the SA pilots was a major part of the arbitrators award, regardless of how they came to be.

I'm not saying that I think we should expect the same result or even try to get something similar, but I do think that makes it every bit, if not more, applicable as any "precedent" that was established by USA/AWA or DAL/NWA, IMHO. Of course I have an opinion of what would be fair and equitable, which I will not share as per our unions directive. I will, however, point out that AAI F/O's becoming SWA F/O's with their current longevity would be the equivalent of or greater than an upgrade at AAI. Since I'm assuming that most of the F/O's at AAI would take the upgrade if offered by AAI (sans this integration), thus trading their seniority as an F/O for juniority as a CA with the accompanying 50% pay raise, I would say that result in this case would be more than fair and equitable. Again, just my opinion. The CA side is a little tougher, but if the CA seat was the end all be all, we'd all have stayed fat, dumb, and happy as regional CA's.

Contrary to Ty's assertion that seniority is forever, as airline pilots we often trade in our "seniority" for a better standard of living for our families. I'm sorry that in this case, it might not be voluntary, but there are worse things that could happen to your career than the marriage of AAI and SWA. I think SWA guys just hope that we can say the same thing when this is all over.

Respectfully and Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[S3sundowner]

......

 

[PCL_128]

I would just advise you have EXTRA outside lawyers look over any deal even after your ALPA lawyers sign off on a deal. Pay the extra money for the extra scrutiny.

We have multiple outside attorneys in addition to the ALPA attorneys.

 

[On Your Six]

Arbitrators don't use "history" - they decide on facts. Every case is different. Nothing like this has happened before. Before you chime in ****-face OY6.... this is different then NWA/DAL.

ALPA Tranny and SWAPA will make a deal:beer: . Oil $$$ is rising, get it done...

They don't use precedent? What? You have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, every case is different, but don't expect something "radically" different than recent arbitrations. Your two airlines are fairly similar LCCs, with similar plane types. Your airline is larger and your compensation is better, which may allow more SWA pilots at the top, but there will be AT pilots as Captains, and mixed in the middle, with SWA pilots joining the ranks at the bottom. You can't escape that.


OYS

 

[GoodTimes]

Could be wrong, but didn't the Nicolau award give the Airways peeps waaaay less than DOH?

 

[CMonBoard]

When this is "all over" in 10 years, 1080 WN pilots and 150 FL pilots will retire. In 15 it will be over 2100 and 360 respectively. It doesn't matter; you guys can discuss this all you want, but the movement from the retirements and the growth will exceed the "movements" by the General and OYS on their Asia layovers.

 

[GuppyWN]

When this is "all over" in 10 years, 1080 WN pilots and 150 FL pilots will retire. In 15 it will be over 2100 and 360 respectively. It doesn't matter; you guys can discuss this all you want, but the movement from the retirements and the growth will exceed the "movements" by the General and OYS on their Asia layovers.

True but if this deal goes bad it'll create ripples for GENERATIONS, not years.

Gup