SWA/Airtran pilot integration thoughts, what will the new list look like?

[bladeusa]

wouldn't there be two shots....

one at 7:17 and one at 7:37?

As a first step in Merging two things...and compromise.
(plus 2 shots 20 minutes apart & how I've heard that SWA pilots cant really hold their alcohol..something about clothing coming off or whatever)
Why not plan to do the famous shot at 7:37.17

 

[CMonBoard]

There goes bladeusa already alienating us with our new co-workers by reducing the "shots" to "shot." what are you, man? part of the BMT?

 

[PCL_128]

SWA is the buying carrier and that does have history of judges awarding more favorable SLIs

Can you cite examples? I'm not aware of any arbitration awards where that has been the case.

 

[waveflyer]

I don't know, I just made that up!
;-)
Ie: Look at the larger point pcl..

 

[PCL_128]

Ie: Look at the larger point pcl..

I'm with ya! Love the signature, by the way. I'm confident that we can avoid it and come out a strong airline at the end.

 

[General Lee]

SWA is the buying carrier and that does have history of judges awarding more favorable SLIs- it's not our contract that's necessarily important but the fact that the company we work for bought you-
Like I said- My opinion: it'll be a relative integration favoring WN bc we are the one forking over the cash-
My point however is that my "opinion" is pretty damn irrelevant and getting attached to it could seriously damage the culture - which is one of the best things about this...
So I ultimately conclude- who cares? We're all better off joining up so we should let a 3rd party decide so all 7700 of us can be mad at them and call it good.

I'm still wanting that 7700 pilot shot at 7:37)!) no matter how the sli goes down

Hey BEST FRIENDS, sorry I haven't been responding for the past couple days, but I have been flying. Anyways, RESPECTFULLY, I disagree with some of the points you have made. Let's look at the last two mergers--USAir/AWA and DAL/NWA. The arbitrators will be looking at them. USAir was pretty much saved by AWA (using credit to buy them, like a mortgage), and the top 500 guys on the Nicalau list were all USAir East, because the East operation had INTL ops (A330s and 767s going overseas), and then it was relative seniority after that. There was a DIFFERENCE in operations. (INTL vs mostly DOM) Do you guys have different planes, or different operations? I don't think so, infact Airtran has more INTL flying, period. And remember, Airtran has some money in the bank, which will be used by SWA for this merger. They aren't broke by any means.

Then there is the DAL/NWA merger. Both airlines had about the same history, (SWA is older than Airtran/Valujet) but they did the same thing--both INTL and DOM carriers. Delta was bigger than NWA in numbers, and had more larger planes (more 757s and up), but didn't have the biggest planes (744s). Still, the arbitrators found that NWA had older planes (742 cargo birds and some older DC9s (-30s) that were destined to be parked sooner than later), and that is how they molded the SLI. Both sides had lawyers that gave their cases, and the 3 arbitrators decided. SWA has older planes than Airtran (733s and 735s), but have more orders, even though Airtran has orders for 738s that will arrive sooner than any SWA could get.

What does all this mean? Most likely, both lists will be combined, with some of the SLI weighted towards longevity (SWA has pilots who have been flying at SWA longer than AT has been flying), but it probably won't be too slanted. It certainly won't be like USAir East getting the top 500. Maybe SWA will get the top 100, and then the AT guys will be slotted in, and that is decided by the arbitrators. Both sides have their own plans, though. The SWA guys want the AT guys to negotiate, making them think they are LUCKY to be a part of the NEW SWA. But, the NEW SWA wouldn't be as good if they didn't HAVE AT attached. So, if you are an AT pilot, just sit back and let the lawyers and arbitrators handle this. It will be a win win for everyone (stronger company), but only because of the combination, not just the SWA side. The COMBO makes the NEW AIRLINE GREAT. BUT DON'T FRET MY BROTHERS!! YOU ARE ALL DOPE! WHAS UP???? YOU ARE DOPE, DO YOU HEAR ME? AWE----SOME.

Regardless, I think ALL OF YOU ARE FANTASTIC, and if you have time tomorrow, PLEASE, do something nice for someone, like volunteering to participate in a line up at your local police station. There is a 93% chance you won't be singled out for that recent murder the other night. See ya!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[scoreboardII]

14312 posts and finally popped an artery.

 

[johnsonrod]

Hey BEST FRIENDS, sorry I haven't been responding for the past couple days, but I have been flying. Anyways, RESPECTFULLY, I disagree with some of the points you have made. Let's look at the last two mergers--USAir/AWA and DAL/NWA. The arbitrators will be looking at them. USAir was pretty much saved by AWA (using credit to buy them, like a mortgage), and the top 500 guys on the Nicalau list were all USAir East, because the East operation had INTL ops (A330s and 767s going overseas), and then it was relative seniority after that. There was a DIFFERENCE in operations. (INTL vs mostly DOM) Do you guys have different planes, or different operations? I don't think so, infact Airtran has more INTL flying, period. And remember, Airtran has some money in the bank, which will be used by SWA for this merger. They aren't broke by any means.

Then there is the DAL/NWA merger. Both airlines had about the same history, (SWA is older than Airtran/Valujet) but they did the same thing--both INTL and DOM carriers. Delta was bigger than NWA in numbers, and had more larger planes (more 757s and up), but didn't have the biggest planes (744s). Still, the arbitrators found that NWA had older planes (742 cargo birds and some older DC9s (-30s) that were destined to be parked sooner than later), and that is how they molded the SLI. Both sides had lawyers that gave their cases, and the 3 arbitrators decided. SWA has older planes than Airtran (733s and 735s), but have more orders, even though Airtran has orders for 738s that will arrive sooner than any SWA could get.

What does all this mean? Most likely, both lists will be combined, with some of the SLI weighted towards longevity (SWA has pilots who have been flying at SWA longer than AT has been flying), but it probably won't be too slanted. It certainly won't be like USAir East getting the top 500. Maybe SWA will get the top 100, and then the AT guys will be slotted in, and that is decided by the arbitrators. Both sides have their own plans, though. The SWA guys want the AT guys to negotiate, making them think they are LUCKY to be a part of the NEW SWA. But, the NEW SWA wouldn't be as good if they didn't HAVE AT attached. So, if you are an AT pilot, just sit back and let the lawyers and arbitrators handle this. It will be a win win for everyone (stronger company), but only because of the combination, not just the SWA side. The COMBO makes the NEW AIRLINE GREAT. BUT DON'T FRET MY BROTHERS!! YOU ARE ALL DOPE! WHAS UP???? YOU ARE DOPE, DO YOU HEAR ME? AWE----SOME.

Regardless, I think ALL OF YOU ARE FANTASTIC, and if you have time tomorrow, PLEASE, do something nice for someone, like volunteering to participate in a line up at your local police station. There is a 93% chance you won't be singled out for that recent murder the other night. See ya!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Good analysis Lee. And, I like the new attitude.

 

[johnsonrod]

14312 posts and finally popped an artery.

You must fly for Southwest. No wonder you are upset. Try to enjoy the merger if you can.

 

[Flying the Line]

PCL, the no dowline draft into a day off sounds nice, but if you are JA'd into a day off at SWA it pays double time.

General, If the US/AW was the other way around and it was AW that was almost shut down, the AW guys would not have been given a relative seniority integration as high as it was.

 

[Lear70]

PCL, the no dowline draft into a day off sounds nice, but if you are JA'd into a day off at SWA it pays double time.

Double pay sounds nice, but I *ALWAYS* want the ability to politely decline it. I plan my life for certain events and I certainly don't mind helping out if I have nothing going on, but if I do and it's important, and I held it off in my bid,,, no, thanks. THAT'S what's nice about being able to refuse a downline draft or a reassignment that takes you out of the footprint of your original pairing.

General, If the US/AW was the other way around and it was AW that was almost shut down, the AW guys would not have been given a relative seniority integration as high as it was.

Moderator hat on:

Guys, we are not going to debate USAir/AWA on this thread. I understand you're quoting it for historical past precedent purposes, and that's fine, but let's not get into a "what-if" and the supporting arguments behind Nicalau. There's USAir/AWA threads for that or you can start a separate thread titled "how Nicalau applies to the AAI/SWA integration".

Trying to keep this thread clear of the non-AAI/SWA pilots who are still irritated about Nicalau and will start debating it in this thread if left unchecked. As I've said before, I understand it's very near and dear to their hearts, but it's gone on for years with the possibility of lasting years more, and it has to stay compartmentalized for the good of the FI community.

/mod

Neither AirTran nor Southwest are a company in trouble. As has been said, the most applicable example for past precedent is NWA/DAL: two healthy companies growing independently that decide, for strategic purposes, to merge. There's always an "acquiring carrier", and about 50% of the cash being handed out for the deal is immediately recaptured by the cash we have on hand. It's a sweetheart deal for management, that's for certain.

 

[K-Mart]

It is not an equivalent to NWA/DAL in terms of employee merger. Not even close.

 

[Dan Roman]

disregard

 

[Steeler Fan]

Go steelers!

 

[727C47]

Go Giants,Go Jets !!!! Wait till next year... Mets !!! Wait another few years....Islanders !!! that about covers it...

 

[Lear70]

It is not an equivalent to NWA/DAL in terms of employee merger. Not even close.

Opinions vary.

Not overly concerned at the moment, way too far out to worry about and we need to finish up our contract talks first. No one has forgotten about that, and we're still placing that at the top of our priority list as a pilot group.

The rest we'll worry about in the Spring after the ink is dry and we're officially part of the Southwest team. Enjoy your Fall, GO COWBOYS!!

 

[yoyoma]

SWA is the buying carrier and that does have history of judges awarding more favorable SLIs- it's not our contract that's necessarily important but the fact that the company we work for bought you-
Like I said- My opinion: it'll be a relative integration favoring WN bc we are the one forking over the cash-
My point however is that my "opinion" is pretty damn irrelevant and getting attached to it could seriously damage the culture - which is one of the best things about this...
So I ultimately conclude- who cares? We're all better off joining up so we should let a 3rd party decide so all 7700 of us can be mad at them and call it good.

I'm still wanting that 7700 pilot shot at 7:37)!) no matter how the sli goes down

you're an idiot! quit being so PC and fight for your seniority. seniority is your everything. sure lets let everyone at airtran pass us up to keep the "culture" intact. f that

 

[Lear70]

you're an idiot! quit being so PC and fight for your seniority. seniority is your everything. sure lets let everyone at airtran pass us up to keep the "culture" intact. f that

Quoted for posterity's sake...

Like any airline, there's the militant fringe on one side, the sheep on the other side, and the truth is, as always, somewhere in the middle.

"Don't drive angry".

 

[waveflyer]

you're an idiot! quit being so PC and fight for your seniority. seniority is your everything. sure lets let everyone at airtran pass us up to keep the "culture" intact. f that

Sound like someone who's never been through a merger--

So- tough guy- you beating your chest accomplishes what?
And how exactly does one "fight" for their seniority? And I'm the idiot??

Ok look merger rookie- I never said let all of air tran leapfrog all of us and I never said don't have an opinion. Call your rep- let your opinion be known- and let the negotiators do their job- and let it go to arbitration if that's in the cards-

What I'm saying is that I know airlines- and our culture is one of the primary things that makes us profitable - it's not all feel good vibes- it translates into cash and you don't wantthe dead weight of extra employees bc of malcontent that can be conceived in a merger. I've been there twice and my father 3 times- you do NOT want that, no matter how much it offends your manhood to lay aside the testosterone and keep things in perspective.

There's what's in your control and what isn't- and wisdom to know the difference

This merger will be what we make it and we all have a vested interest in making sure it goes well

 

[WildcatFan]

If you think this is going to go well you are smokin crack. SWA guys are pissed, and will take this to an arbitrator, count on it. If the AT guys arent happy with huge pay raises, the best work rules and the best job security in the industry well then I dont care. THEY are the ones who should fear the arbitrator, there isnt one advantage in their column when it comes to the total value of a career.

Look at it this way - how many AT guys would cancel this deal versus how many SWA guys? The answer is telling.