SWA/Airtran pilot integration thoughts, what will the new list look like?

[dicko]

cant wait to fly with you boys

Me too. "It rubs the lotion on its skin, or it gets the hose again" ......

This ones for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDgS6qLsVM4

 

[Kharma Police]

It's difficult to write a paragraph without a single grain of truth in it. Kudos.

We'll let the spelling slide, since you seem to be having some difficulties already.

:laugh:

Looks like 400ADude ponied up and changed screen names. The incoherent rants and the kindergarten spelling are a dead give away............

 

[Lear70]

Thats BS right there. There was no PIC requirement when you were hiring.

You are absolutely incorrect.

If you like, I have a copy of my online application where I very clearly had to check a box that says "Do you have 1,000 PIC Part 121 Turbine time?" If you check no, the online app kicked you out and you couldn't finish it.

Currently, that 1,000 has been reduced to 500 (didn't know that actually) for the last application window. I don't know why, we have literally THOUSANDS of applications for just 175 openings for the first half of next year which, of course, is now all on hold.

Them's the facts. Sorry you don't like them.

 

[OldManPilot]

If I am repeating what someone else has said, I appologize.

Many of you have said the A/C we (AirTran) have slated for delivery will simply be replacement for your a/c thus no gain to the SWA pilot. I agree, however; please try to step back for a moment and see those A/C from our viewpoint. For AirTran pilots these were growth A/C. They were not a neutral growth development. They meant upgrade for several pilots. So to us, if they are imply replacment A/C then we are seeing our upgrade potential go down the drain for many years. For guys like me, I will most likely spend the remainder of my career (15 yrs. if I fly to 65) in the right seat. With the pay increase that is a wash, but we have all been captains elsewhere and know, "It's good to be the King".
It is my hope that we can try to spend a little time in each others shoes and see what is give and take from each side.
Please know we do appriciate that we will be making more money, but allow us to join the pilot group at SWA with a bit of dignity and knowledge that we also have worked hard to make a profitable and growing company.
Nuff said, lets get a beer!

 

[1.3XVso]

Is pcl 128 going to bring alpa to southwest?

 

[K-Mart]

I remember Airtran minimums being 500 PIC back in 04.

Here is a copy of a post back in 2003 with Airtran minimums.

In an effort to create more movement at the regional level, I respectfully submit the following:

Company Name: AirTran Airways Position: First Officer 12/18/2003
Description: Minimum Qualifications:
* Fixed wing flight time - 2500 hours
* Multi-engine, fixed wing flight time - 1000 hours
* 121 PIC or military equivalent - 500 hours
* An ATP certificate, or successful completion of the ATP written
exam
* Current First Class Medical certificate
* Valid passport
* Legally eligible for employment in the United States
* Free of felony convictions within the most recent 10 years

TO APPLY: Please visit AirTran web site for the latest
updates on job openings. You may email your resume to
[email protected]
Address:
AirTran Airways
Department INT
1688 Phoenix Parkway
Suite 1704
College Park, GA 30349
USA
Telephone: 1-888-833-6706
Direct Link: www.airtran.com/aboutus/employ/pilot.jsp

 

[waveflyer]

cant wait to fly with you boys

He says from a dorm room in Prescott -

 

[vixin]

* 121 PIC or military equivalent - 500 hours
It was 2003 or earlier. I have shown that to him. Maybe his application had higher mins for a reason.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Contrary to what some people on this board think, not everyone had a dream of someday becoming a SW pilot. My plan was to retire from AirTran being #1 on the list after 40 years of service. I am currently in top 25% seniority with 30 years to go. Some of you might say, that would never happen. I say, you never know. Ask your 40 year captains. I'm sure they'll tell you stories of how 30 years ago their friends from EAL,TWA,UAL,AA laughed at them for staying at SW. AirTran is bigger company today than SW was on their 16th birthday. It is a healthy, growing company that has done many things right to arrive at this junction.

But all these arguments are useless now. Apparently, people at both airlines who steered us (SW and AT) to this success think that we are better off together than apart. Things have changed. I am exited about our future together at SW. I will accept the ruling from above and adapt to this new world.

That being said, I got one smile back as a reply to my "Hi"/nod from older SW captain at MDW today, as me and FO walked from gate to our hotel van. We also got 3 ignores from 3 FOs and one chilling F.U.! look from a mid-age captain.

I will continue to say "hi" to you guys. Hope we can all get along some day.

 

[Lear70]

* 121 PIC or military equivalent - 500 hours
It was 2003 or earlier. I have shown that to him. Maybe his application had higher mins for a reason.

Because I'm just that good... (and had over 5,000 PIC Turbine 121 at the time).

Not going to argue about it, have my PRIA file from AirTran sitting right here, says "1,000 PIC Turbine 121" with a little check box next to it on the app.

Besides, does it really matter? Especially since your argument was asinine to begin with...

 

[MCDU]

Hopefully this will be a doh merger. I wish the airtran pilots all the best and never allow swa to staple you.

M

 

[race#53]

I agree 100%. I've been saying all along that it needs to be fair, I never have advocated stapling anyone or a windfall for anyone (re. your original reply).

I know from the Southwest pilot's perspective that it seems AirTran pilots are getting all the benefits, but the fact of the matter is that the money isn't something Southwest pilots are "giving up".

Lear, what if SW took the AT cash balance and gave it to the SW FO's
to soften the blows a bit....do you have a problem with AT "giving up" ?
Dennis in Chicago

 

[yoyoma]

He says from a dorm room in Prescott -

would you like me to read you something off of swalife?

 

[BigEasy]

In response to the B plan over there, yes it is better than our 9.3% match.

Now if I would still be at Airtran I would be making $74 an hour at an average of 85 hours.

$74 * 85 = 6290 * 10.5% is $660.45

That is pretty good.

Now at SWA I make $99.02 * 105 TFP = $10,397.10 * 9.3% is $966.93

My point is that it is not only the %, the money does have a factor. I would rather have the higher pay, hence the better match.

Now with the B fund you do not have to contribute to get the match.

Just thought I would point that out.

 

[Lear70]

In response to the B plan over there, yes it is better than our 9.3% match.

Now if I would still be at Airtran I would be making $74 an hour at an average of 85 hours.

$74 * 85 = 6290 * 10.5% is $660.45

That is pretty good.

Now at SWA I make $99.02 * 105 TFP = $10,397.10 * 9.3% is $966.93

My point is that it is not only the %, the money does have a factor. I would rather have the higher pay, hence the better match.

Now with the B fund you do not have to contribute to get the match.

Just thought I would point that out.

The question wasn't whether you'd want the entire financial side of the house, but rather what specific elements of our contract you'd want to keep.

I'd take the 10.5% of the Southwest hourly rate in a B-fund if we could keep it structured that way and let me contribute my max to the 401(k) without a match. Better tax position, by far.

 

[bmpilot]

Ding Ding Ding

AT pilots haven't been watching the news over the last 10 years considering what has happen to pension funds at various airlines and other companies.

Ding Ding Ding Do you have a financial planner? A plan B plan figure it out.

 

[bmpilot]

Ding Ding Ding

AT pilots haven't been watching the news over the last 10 years considering what has happen to pension funds at various airlines and other companies.

WOW OH WOW

Does he know an A Fund from a B Fund. I would take AT's in a heart beat. If I could.

He jumps in at page 13 of this thread and has anyone looked at the rest of his post.

Only 24 post up to this last one. I know I don't post much but!

 

[Ty Webb]

In response to the B plan over there, yes it is better than our 9.3% match.

Now if I would still be at Airtran I would be making $74 an hour at an average of 85 hours.

$74 * 85 = 6290 * 10.5% is $660.45

That is pretty good.

Now at SWA I make $99.02 * 105 TFP = $10,397.10 * 9.3% is $966.93

.

Not to dispute the above, but I just wanted to point out that these numbers are based upon our 2001 Contract. With all sections of the new CBA TA'd except for Compensation (and a 98% strike vote) our FO's were (are?) within a few months of having 2010 pay, not 2001 pay.

The "big windfall" that I keep reading about on these boards is not nearly as "big" as some might think, especially for senior AirTran FO's, depending upon how SLI is handled. After all, the 50 deliveries we have on order represents 300 CA upgrades that they have been waiting for, some more patiently than others . . .

For a mid-level CA like me, I would be looking at a 20%-25% raise, in exchange for an uncertain seniority, uncertain commute, and an uncertain work environment. Some things are more important than money, and if I lose out on any of the above, it's not worth it to me for some extra pay.

However, whether this goes down, or how it goes down is not up to me, and I will accept it as it happens, just trying to share how it looks from this side of the airport fence. I'm sure there are plenty of guys with quite different perspectives, too, that are equally vaild.

Ty

 

[roughneck]

Two things strike me as odd. SWA increased ancillary revs to over $200m in 2Q 2010, representing a 35% increase over 2q 2009. Also, look at Airtran's % change and $ for 2Q 2010. Maybe they shot their wad already. With internet across their fleet and unbundling of most items for $ this may be the end of the up stream for them. They make a big deal about growth in their ancillary revenues in all their Wall Street presentations, but from the looks of it its been flat at $65 million or so for over a year. This is at odds with almost every other carrier's ancillary rev results which grew substantially over the past year (except for JB).

Airtran may be out of money, gas and ideas. So much for the 50 airplanes they planned to grow with. Less bag fees and Airtran is a money losing company. SWA can roll the AT product into our business model and revenue management process and make it profitable but to argue Airtran is a winning business model today and viable longterm is a stretch. They have hit the wall and Fonaro knew it.

He is taking his golden parachute and running for the hills. Good news for the Airtran guys is they get to come over and join our team. Welcome aboard.

 

[Kharma Police]

Two things strike me as odd. SWA increased ancillary revs to over $200m in 2Q 2010, representing a 35% increase over 2q 2009. Also, look at Airtran's % change and $ for 2Q 2010. Maybe they shot their wad already. With internet across their fleet and unbundling of most items for $ this may be the end of the up stream for them. They make a big deal about growth in their ancillary revenues in all their Wall Street presentations, but from the looks of it its been flat at $65 million or so for over a year. This is at odds with almost every other carrier's ancillary rev results which grew substantially over the past year (except for JB).

Airtran may be out of money, gas and ideas. So much for the 50 airplanes they planned to grow with. Less bag fees and Airtran is a money losing company. SWA can roll the AT product into our business model and revenue management process and make it profitable but to argue Airtran is a winning business model today and viable longterm is a stretch. They have hit the wall and Fonaro knew it.

He is taking his golden parachute and running for the hills. Good news for the Airtran guys is they get to come over and join our team. Welcome aboard.

Here is a quote from Gary Kelly:

"Southwest CEO Gary Kelly gave three reasons: 1) The financial health of the company, 2) there is little or no organic growth left with Southwest's route system, and 3) the right leadership team is in place."

Prior to the acquisition announcement, SWA was out of ideas regarding growth in its existing route structure. I suspected as much for awhile due to your flat to negative growth for the year. The above quote by your CEO confirms this. No growth means your huge cash cushion will slowly disappear as your costs continue to rise. Weather you want to admit it or not, Southwest needs what we have. This will be great for both companies and I am looking forward to the future possibilities.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Put it to a vote of both pilot groups to staple the AirTran guys to the SWA list. It will pass by a large margin. Accept it, move on. Done.

The only fair way to do it is a vote.

 

[General Lee]

Not to dispute the above, but I just wanted to point out that these numbers are based upon our 2001 Contract. With all sections of the new CBA TA'd except for Compensation (and a 98% strike vote) our FO's were (are?) within a few months of having 2010 pay, not 2001 pay.

The "big windfall" that I keep reading about on these boards is not nearly as "big" as some might think, especially for senior AirTran FO's, depending upon how SLI is handled. After all, the 50 deliveries we have on order represents 300 CA upgrades that they have been waiting for, some more patiently than others . . .

For a mid-level CA like me, I would be looking at a 20%-25% raise, in exchange for an uncertain seniority, uncertain commute, and an uncertain work environment. Some things are more important than money, and if I lose out on any of the above, it's not worth it to me for some extra pay.

However, whether this goes down, or how it goes down is not up to me, and I will accept it as it happens, just trying to share how it looks from this side of the airport fence. I'm sure there are plenty of guys with quite different perspectives, too, that are equally vaild.

Ty

Hey BEST FRIEND TY,

Hey, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS WATCH. This will be done by arbitrators, and not by SWAPA. They will have lawyers that will try to put up a defense, just like ALPA will be doing for you. Precedence is HUGE when it comes to mergers, and before you even get to the SLI, you will have a new Joint Contract (with equal pay with the SWA pilots). Why? Because Gary Kelly doesn't want to ruin the "SWA Culture", having you guys pizzed. The last merger that DIDN'T go that way (joint contract was FIRST) was the USAir Merger, and how is that going now? Not well.

So, the AT guys will get a huge pay bump (like the FNWA guys did) and benefit bump, and then there will be an SLI done by arbitrators (no more staples thanks to Bond/McCaskil). You guys don't have to negotiate with SWAPA, just say "let the arbitrators do it." That will make some SWA pilots angry, but this is SENIORITY, and it will stick with you until you retire. Don't accept lower pay or a B-Scale, that would diminish what YOU BRING TO THE MERGER, which is A LOT. Ride this whole thing like a wave BABY!!! You likely won't be kicked out of ATL (most SWA families are established now somewhere else, although some may move), and with a relative seniority type SLI (except for the top 200 or so probably which could be all SWA) which is VERY LIKELY, you will most likely retain your seat. Just because the SWA FOs don't like it much or don't see a large pay raise in their future, along with a longer upgrade, DOESN'T MEAN YOU ALL CAN'T BE SUPER SWELL TO EACHOTHER, AND LOVE THE CULTURE YOU BOTH WILL HAVE. AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!!! LOVE IT! No, LUV IT!

Regardless, you all are FANTASTIC. SERIOUSLY, YOU GUYS ARE NOT CHUMPS, BUT RATHER STUDS! And, if you have time today, try to do something nice for someone, like acting as a crossing guard when a row of ducks come walking across a busy highway. Just go out there and wave your arms in the middle of the lanes. I bet most of those large trucks will slow down. See ya!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Ty Webb]

They make a big deal about growth in their ancillary revenues in all their Wall Street presentations, but from the looks of it its been flat at $65 million or so for over a year.

Look at the Operating Profit, Chief, not what they did with the numbers afterward. AirTran had its largest operating profit ever in 2009, and 2010 is similar as well. They chose to take some of that profit and pay down debt, yet increased our cash on hand to $500 million, which is the highest it's ever been.

Airtran may be out of money, gas and ideas. So much for the 50 airplanes they planned to grow with. .

This may make you feel good to think so, but it is at odds with reality. AirTran is making more than ever before, and hiring an adding another 10% to its pilot ranks.

 

[Ty Webb]

Thanks, General . . . . if you see a baby in a stroller on the Concourse, give it a piece of candy, and give its mama a nice pat on the rump.

New mothers need to feel attractive while the baby weight comes off!

 

[texman]

Here is a quote from Gary Kelly:

"Southwest CEO Gary Kelly gave three reasons: 1) The financial health of the company, 2) there is little or no organic growth left with Southwest's route system, and 3) the right leadership team is in place."

Prior to the acquisition announcement, SWA was out of ideas regarding growth in its existing route structure. I suspected as much for awhile due to your flat to negative growth for the year. The above quote by your CEO confirms this. No growth means your huge cash cushion will slowly disappear as your costs continue to rise. Weather you want to admit it or not, Southwest needs what we have. This will be great for both companies and I am looking forward to the future possibilities.

Your CEO also stated that too. AT can't grow organnicaly. I have to find it. I think it was on FI in regards to The cowboy/falcon deal. Who cares, together we both will kick azzzzz.

 

[Lear70]

It was in one of the original press releases, he was talking about trying to grow in ATL. VERY tough to do, we've actually been shrinking ATL because Delta still insists on pricing the product BELOW the cost to produce it just to try to "compete" with us.

It's why we re-focused in MKE and near-international out of MCO and those markets are growing like gangbusters. It's also why we were growing our pilot base by 10+% in the next 6 months and have opened two new bases. So yes, our "organic" growth was going just fine and quite profitably.

 

[Kharma Police]

Your CEO also stated that too. AT can't grow organnicaly. I have to find it. I think it was on FI in regards to The cowboy/falcon deal. Who cares, together we both will kick azzzzz.

That may be true although I have never heard or read about it. My point in posting Gary Kelly's quote was to illustrate that according to your CEO and contrary to a few of your pilots, AirTran does offer some great benefits to the growth strategy of Southwest. Growth means hiring and UPGRADES to SWA FOs who might have stagnated if SWA remained solo. I believe we will both be stronger companies as a result and I am looking froward to working for your great airline.

 

[waveflyer]

I just love it when the 5%ers start acting like they have a clue about executive level financials and somehow attempt to correlate that to the SLI- you guys are all clearly bored --- except this time- you're drama CAN and HAS snowballed into major conflict at other carriers... So if you really think your opinion about airline financials and Sli's etc upon etc is worth that... Keep it up- I'll be here still calling you 1/2 nerds 1/2 retarded and beating the "don't end up like Airways" drum.

General Lee has it 100% right.
(enjoy that Gen)

Let it go to arbitration- enjoy your hobbies and make it a goal to have sex 2 more times a week than you do now.

Do that and this is ALL good for everyone

 

[Lear70]

enjoy your hobbies and make it a goal to have sex 2 more times a week than you do now.

Do that and this is ALL good for everyone

So sex twice more a week than we get now is somehow related to the merger?

I've seen a few attractive (and young enough) F/A's at both companies, but you sure are volunteering their services quite a bit outside of their "normal duties" here...

 

[waveflyer]

I was talking about your wife or gf's-

But I think we got a few Airline Lysistrata's that could take care of you!

Haha- alcohol and *************************= great culture- ;-)