SWA-AAI Going Rogue

[Cruncher]

... This SLI is all about seniority, not seat position.
Bye Bye---General Lee

I wholly agree. Have you read what some of the AAI guys write? "No seat loss."

But, some of the egos on this board are a bit over the top, and borderline elitist. You may have thought certain airline pilots were like that in the past, but a lot of your guys are that way NOW.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Again agree on all sides. We all have our 2%. All these guys do is piss everyone else off.

 

[Cruncher]

No dog in this fight, but longevity is not the same thing as seniority.

I think (at least I hope) everyone here knows the difference. My comment was to the guys saying they will not loose one Captain seat (which is akin to saying Relative "Seniority").

One of the poor things with conversing in forums, is sometimes intent is lost. Can't readily convey body language, ...

 

[SWA/FO]

And yes cpt at aai compared to fo at swa is a pay cut.

smokin some Atlanta crack again.

 

[BoilerUP]

I think (at least I hope) everyone here knows the difference. My comment was to the guys saying they will not loose one Captain seat (which is akin to saying Relative "Seniority").

One of the poor things with conversing in forums, is sometimes intent is lost. Can't readily convey body language, ...

Indeed...that and internet forums tends to bring the ****************************** out in people that they'd never expose in reality. But I digress...

Recognizing that seniority isn't the same as longevity, why then would it be untenable that a 6 year AirTran captain keeps his Captain position and an 11 year Southwest FO keeps his First Officer position?

Did the AirTran captain not "bring his seat" to the merger, as the SWA first officer brought his seat to the merger?

Seems to me, as an outside observer who got to listen to AAA guys bitch about the Nicholau decision on the jumpseat for 2 years, that there have been some SWA pilots claim AirTran brings nothing to this merger. However, its quite clear that AirTran pilots are bringing Captain positions with them to a merger - Captain positions that some SWA pilots apparently feel they are entitled to, and Captain positions that they otherwise would not have available for some time at Southwest's recent & projected rate of growth & attrition. Some SWA pilots rationalize it that position by talking about the massive contract improvement AirTran pilots would get even from their new TA to the existing SWA CBA (even comparing AT CA to SWA FO), and while that may be true, it doesn't change the fact that pilots with more longevity at Airline A attempting to take captains positions away from pilots with more seniority at Airline B is essentially a land grab - or, perhaps a more accurate way to describe it, seizure by imminent domain where market price is paid to those who had something they didn't want to relinquish forcibly taken from them.

Just throwing this out there for folks to think about: what would be the harm to current Southwest pilots in stapling AT captains the bottom of SWA's captain list, and stapling AT FOs to the bottom of SWA's FO list? With this, everybody would keep the position they brought to the merger, would keep their longevity for pay, and SWA FOs would get the captain positions created by all attrition & growth, with the most junior SWA FO having an opportunity to upgrade before the most senior AT FO.

Sure, with the above there would be "winners" and "losers" (like there are in any SLI)...but it preserves the seats of existing AirTran CAs, gives existing SWA FOs first crack at all future captain positions, and allows AirTran FOs a substantial raise in pay to compensate for their upgrade being below all existing SWA FOs.

So, both sides - how out to lunch am I?

 

[Bill Nelson]

Did the AirTran captain not "bring his seat" to the merger, as the SWA first officer brought his seat to the merger?

In all honesty I think this idea is the crux of all the angst. There is a widespread fundamental misunderstanding that seems to muddy the water in this deal. This is not a merger of equals. This is not a merger at all and is simply an aquistion for SWA.

 

[SWA/FO]

Gary Kelly in the MCO lounge a few weeks ago "Guys, guys, you have to remember we are the ones doing the buying".

 

[Ty Webb]

Bill, you are the one that doesn't get it, but you will. Who "bought" who doesn't matter, it is a seniority list merger.

 

[Bill Nelson]

it is a seniority list merger

We aren't merging lists. We will be adding you to our list after the acquisition if the time comes where that is a necessity.

 

[Ty Webb]

We aren't merging lists. We will be adding you to our list after the acquisition if the time comes where that is a necessity.

Ha, ha ... OK, Chief. Whatever gets you through the night, but you have a long hard road ahead of you, because you're about twenty years behind the times.

 

[Bill Nelson]

What happened 20 years ago?

 

[johnsonrod]

What happened 20 years ago? If the operations are never combined then you will not be added to our seniority list.

Riiiight. That SWA culture is dying right here. And you think ATL will grow in size or flights per gate per day when you and others consider them NOT a part of your "culture"? Sounds like USAir part deux. This ought to be fun to watch. I wonder if Chase thinks ops will remain separate?

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

You have ZERO experience in an SLI...


Bye Bye---General Lee

Just because you were a pawn in a previous SLI does not give you anymore "experience in an SLI" than any line pilot (pawn) at AAI and SWA. There are different factors that affect each integration. No two will be alike. Seriously man, if this were a bar room, you would be embarrassing yourself.

A five year old might say "this is an 'A' 'B' conversation, you can 'C' your way out".

Ill just say, your input is neither relevant, nor required.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Riiiight. That SWA culture is dying right here. And you think ATL will grow in size or flights per gate per day when you and others consider them NOT a part of your "culture"? Sounds like USAir part deux. This ought to be fun to watch. I wonder if Chase thinks ops will remain separate?

What does Chase have to do with it?

 

[Bill Nelson]

And you think ATL will grow in size or flights per gate per day when you and others consider them NOT a part of your "culture"?

We are buying the gates in ATL and SWA can utilize them however they see fit. It will be a business decision and nothing more. After the acquisition close date the gates will belong to Southwest and will be utilized as such.

 

[General Lee]

We are buying the gates in ATL and SWA can utilize them however they see fit. It will be a business decision and nothing more. After the acquisition close date the gates will belong to Southwest and will be utilized as such.

Huh? Ummm, NO. Thanks to the Bond/McKaskil bill, you cannot just discard the employees. Ummmmmmmmmmm NO. You are full of it, and your posts will just help point out your extreme cockiness. When it is all over, we are going to bring this back up to you BILL, and you can then apologize. I can't wait, and I bet Ty can't either. And, I love the part about it all being a "business decision." Heck, you just helped make this USAir 2.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Just because you were a pawn in a previous SLI does not give you anymore "experience in an SLI" than any line pilot (pawn) at AAI and SWA. There are different factors that affect each integration. No two will be alike. Seriously man, if this were a bar room, you would be embarrassing yourself.

A five year old might say "this is an 'A' 'B' conversation, you can 'C' your way out".

Ill just say, your input is neither relevant, nor required.

This will be fun to watch Hoser. Really, you are going to lose, and there is NOTHING you can do about it. (BTW, my SLI went great)


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[johnsonrod]

What does Chase have to do with it?

Chase seems to be level headed and probably wouldn't make outlandish statements like your buddy Bill just did. That was just crazy.

 

[Mach 80]

Please spread the word at Airtran: The MCO tower KNOWS everone would prefer to have 17R instead of 17L and gives 17R when they can. They are sick and tired of being asked by those couple of Airtran guys for 17R all the time. THEY KNOW YOU PREFER 17R so quit asking for it.

 

[GuppyWN]

I'd quit asking for it if they gave it to me. When I am denied with no activity on 17R it only reinforces why I pester them about it.

And why would I EVER want to land on 18R? But I seem to.

Gup

 

[ivauir]

And yes cpt at aai compared to fo at swa is a pay cut.

Nope.