SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[Bob Dylan]

Reading responses from Ty Webb does not create a desire to argue with him, it creates a desire to tell the NC to modify the SWA CBA for a matched rate of AAI wages to capture the B717 rate as is. If they do not want what we have to work with then split them up. Transfer the B737 to SWA list hire off the street and rope off the B717, down grading as needed.

That's what will most likely happen. Sorry for the trannies that really want to be at SWA, but the writing is on the wall.

 

[GuppyWN]

The truth is no one at Airtran knows what they want. I fly with guys who say things like, "we want something fair... you know rope off the guys that were there before we existed then do something like 4 to 1".
So you want to staple all the FO's?
No.
I say well if you shuffle 4000 pilots with 1000 of ours at 4 to 1 you end up stapling the bottom 700ish. They say oh well then we should get something better than that.

Sometimes they say we should do mixed things. Ratio this chunk, DOH this chunk, percentage this chunk, etc... It sounds good but you know they have no idea what they are talking about. They overheard the idea in the breakroom and are running with it. It sounds better than staple and warm and fuzzy... like everyone wins we will have a tailored list for every seniority.

Some say go with DOH and a big fence. I explain that even with a staple you would have to have displacements, followed with vacancies to lose the captain seats. The 717 is gone when the leases are up. So you will automatically have your fence even without a fence... so why the fence? Confused look... The truth is they don't really even know what a fence is.... They are on the 717 and don't want anyone to mess with them.

So you are reading it here first Airtran pilots have no idea what they want. We know we don't want a staple. Here is another secret. Anything you hand us will pass. Our last contract gave us little that we wanted. It passed by 86%. You hand us double pay and better scheduling and it will pass.

I will mention one massive land mine.... PRIDE!!! Which no one at SWA seems to be able to understand. While we may look like the biggest ******************** box in the industry, our old timers have mountains of pride. So you start saying things like we will strip you of your longevity. We will give you 1 SWA year for every 2 AAI years... etc... then you are just being a dick for the sake of being a dick. That is enough for us to want to USAir this pig.

In closing... You know you're great. We know you're great. So be nice. Give us a little something that says we understand you worked for a ******************** bird for a lot of years. It will pass by 90%.

Or we can go to arbitration. This is the best scenario!!! No one has any idea what will happen. Airtran is well aware that you have a lot more to lose than we do... We are confident we can't be stapled. So if you take that outcome away from an arbitrator... We like our odds.

That's actually a pretty reasonable post. I see a lot of what you guys get but what does the WN pilot get out of all this?

Serious question.

Gup

 

[Ty Webb]

You're not going to realize what is happening to you until it is too late.:crying::crying::crying:

Whatever, buddy. Ty will be fine. :laugh:

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Bob Fornaro walked away with 15 million dollars and a paid consulting role, I did not see Gary Kelly get a multi-million dollar bonus. Is he out complaining about what is in it for him? No, he is out telling everybody how this is going to be a huge benefit to the combined company and how it will help the company grow and prosper helping EVERYBODY in the long run.
I have not talked to many Airtran guys that do not think this merger is good for them in the long term even if it might be a little painful in the short term but all believe we do bring assets to this merger which are going to jump start Southwest into a exciting direction. I understand that Southwest guys may be having trouble seeing the benefit to them even though I am sure your longevity, hard work, great contract, multiple bases, and older pilot group will affect the seniority integration. I think people on both sides are going to have to make a decision whether a ground war is going to be good for the company, and in the long term their career. For Southwest guys this might mean the delays in seeing Gary's plan being implemented to allow for new destinations, international ops, growth, a new airplane type, and the risk of a souring effect on their culture. For Airtran guys all the above plus getting on SWAPA's contract.
I hope after the dust settles, however the SLI goes, both sides can realize this is a good thing, and use the momentum to help their career in the long term. Unfortunately the aggressive, abusive, and insulting rhetoric does have a polarizing affect on the feelings of both groups, and could set the stage for a harder integration. I think a little more civility and less name calling would go a long way to help both groups move forward.

 

[SWA/FO]

Bob Fornaro walked away with 15 million dollars and a paid consulting role, I did not see Gary Kelly get a multi-million dollar bonus.

Read the annual report. Usually stock options.

 

[Lear70]

Read the annual report. Usually stock options.

Doesn't he get those yearly anyway?

Or did I miss something in the yearly report where he got an extra large amount from this, particular transaction?

 

[Ty Webb]

Well said.
"I try to get, but they keep pulling me back in. "

Bob Fornaro walked away with 15 million dollars and a paid consulting role, I did not see Gary Kelly get a multi-million dollar bonus. Is he out complaining about what is in it for him? No, he is out telling everybody how this is going to be a huge benefit to the combined company and how it will help the company grow and prosper helping EVERYBODY in the long run.
I have not talked to many Airtran guys that do not think this merger is good for them in the long term even if it might be a little painful in the short term but all believe we do bring assets to this merger which are going to jump start Southwest into a exciting direction. I understand that Southwest guys may be having trouble seeing the benefit to them even though I am sure your longevity, hard work, great contract, multiple bases, and older pilot group will affect the seniority integration. I think people on both sides are going to have to make a decision whether a ground war is going to be good for the company, and in the long term their career. For Southwest guys this might mean the delays in seeing Gary's plan being implemented to allow for new destinations, international ops, growth, a new airplane type, and the risk of a souring effect on their culture. For Airtran guys all the above plus getting on SWAPA's contract.
I hope after the dust settles, however the SLI goes, both sides can realize this is a good thing, and use the momentum to help their career in the long term. Unfortunately the aggressive, abusive, and insulting rhetoric does have a polarizing affect on the feelings of both groups, and could set the stage for a harder integration. I think a little more civility and less name calling would go a long way to help both groups move forward.

 

[humveedriver]

That's actually a pretty reasonable post. I see a lot of what you guys get but what does the WN pilot get out of all this?

Serious question.

Gup

The person who really needs to answer that question for you, is your boss. If you ask us, were just going to tell you that you get to fly with 1700 of the best pilots in the industry

 

[PapaWoody]

Bob Fornaro walked away with 15 million dollars and a paid consulting role, I did not see Gary Kelly get a multi-million dollar bonus. Is he out complaining about what is in it for him? No, he is out telling everybody how this is going to be a huge benefit to the combined company and how it will help the company grow and prosper helping EVERYBODY in the long run.
I have not talked to many Airtran guys that do not think this merger is good for them in the long term even if it might be a little painful in the short term but all believe we do bring assets to this merger which are going to jump start Southwest into a exciting direction. I understand that Southwest guys may be having trouble seeing the benefit to them even though I am sure your longevity, hard work, great contract, multiple bases, and older pilot group will affect the seniority integration. I think people on both sides are going to have to make a decision whether a ground war is going to be good for the company, and in the long term their career. For Southwest guys this might mean the delays in seeing Gary's plan being implemented to allow for new destinations, international ops, growth, a new airplane type, and the risk of a souring effect on their culture. For Airtran guys all the above plus getting on SWAPA's contract.
I hope after the dust settles,
however the SLI goes, both sides can realize this is a good thing, and use the momentum to help their career in the long term. Unfortunately the aggressive, abusive, and insulting rhetoric does have a polarizing affect on the feelings of both groups, and could set the stage for a harder integration. I think a little more civility and less name calling would go a long way to help both groups move forward.

Great post. Well bowled, sir.
PW

 

[texman]

The person who really needs to answer that question for you, is your boss. If you ask us, were just going to tell you that you get to fly with 1700 of the best pilots in the industry[/QUO

I think GK has heard from all the work groups at SWA, in relationship to what we want. It has nothing to do with money, job security, scheduling flexibility, rigs and a great culture to boot. It has to do with one little tiny thing.LOL!

 

[bladeusa]

i'm going to go out on a limb here... is it the "One Luv" medallion?

 

[400ADude]

i'm going to go out on a limb here... is it the "One Luv" medallion?

My medallion didn't stand up to well against a 50 cal.:beer: Interesting sound it made!:beer:

 

[Crash Pad]

That's actually a pretty reasonable post. I see a lot of what you guys get but what does the WN pilot get out of all this?

Serious question.

Gup

The way I see it the only problem we have is that you have 10 year F/O's and we have 5 year F/O's.

Say you go date of hire. Wouldn't that solve this problem?

Is there another problem I am missing? Is there a concern that DOH isn't good enough for you? Like you go from being say number 1600 on a 5000 person list to 1625 on a 7000 person list?

Serious questions

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

My medallion didn't stand up to well against a 50 cal.:beer: Interesting sound it made!:beer:

I would send you mine but it never came. Ohh well it saves me the thought of what to do with it

 

[Lonestar]

Bob Fornaro walked away with 15 million dollars and a paid consulting role, I did not see Gary Kelly get a multi-million dollar bonus. Is he out complaining about what is in it for him?

let's be fair here. Gary is the CEO of the company that acquired Bob's company. As such, Bob has no expectations to remain 'in his seat' as the CEO of SWA.

 

[dicko]

let's be fair here. Gary is the CEO of the company that acquired, merged or LUV'd Bob's company. As such, Bob has no expectations to remain 'in his seat' as the CEO of SWA.

Consensus at last ..... See, We can all agree.

 

[waveflyer]

The way I see it the only problem we have is that you have 10 year F/O's and we have 5 year F/O's.

Say you go date of hire. Wouldn't that solve this problem?

Is there another problem I am missing? Is there a concern that DOH isn't good enough for you? Like you go from being say number 1600 on a 5000 person list to 1625 on a 7000 person list?

Serious questions

DOH would make the bottom 300 FOs at WN the bottom of that 7000+ list.
Do you see a problem with that?

 

[dicko]

DOH would make the bottom 300 FOs at WN the bottom of that 7000+ list.
Do you see a problem with that?

Ask Eichen and his two new friends. Somebody has to be on the bottom. Right ?

 

[waveflyer]

Ask Eichen and his two new friends. Somebody has to be on the bottom. Right ?

Who's Eichen and his friends?

Do you really think that FOs at AT will get a 300 pilot cushion after being bought?

 

[redflyer65]

I really don't think the operations would be merged if that scenerio plays out. Way too many pissed of pilots to make things work like they do at SW.