Survey: Now that we all have our W-2s....

[klhoard]

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Been there done that. . . got the sand flea bites to prove it. . .
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I guess if you consider a GP Medium tent in the middle of the friggin' desert "home", then you're right. . .
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Enjoy!!!
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[CaptBud330]

Productivity?

Now heres a quote from someone without a clue!

$228177 W2 for 2004
$75375 of that was for 2 years of a stock option grant from 1994.
$152802 is for direct compansation without stock options
Just flew my line this year, 3 on 4 off. 661 hours block for the year.

I guess I don't get it. I always thought LUV was productive. For the last 6 years at U, I averaged 935 block hours a year flying A330 International. Hmm. Make ya wonder.

 

[Delville]

Personally, I do not understand at all why some of the folks here find it "classless" and "crass" to discuss actual income levels especially in the context of a relatively anonymous internet message board. Knowledge is power. Management would love for us to have as little idea as possible about what employees at other companies are earning. Also, there are people who frequent this board trying to make real decisions that will effect their real lives and their real families. They need real information. If reading a thread like this contributes at all to the knowledge level of such people, then so much the better. If reading this thread provides any kind of small input to a decision that allows a breadwinner to maximize his/her income and/or minimize a spouse's or parent's time away from home, then this thread has served it's purpose.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Now heres a quote from someone without a clue!

LUV has never been at the bottom of the industry, pay wise for the last 30 years or so! I have been at SWA for 12 years and have made in direct compansation (W2 wages) industry average pay of the legacy carriers for the plane I fly since I have been with SWA. Thats also without counting my stock option grant from 1994 which actualy put me ahead of most of them!

Now Jim, I think we all know furloughfodder was speaking of pilot wages in a broader context, not the narrowly defined rate for a 737 only. In that context, your "clueless" jab was uncalled for.

One could easily point out that the 737 is nearly the smallest (least paying) aircraft most legacy carriers operate. So, from that perspective you could rightly assert SWA pilots are some of the best paid pilots of the least compensated fleet type in the industry. "Industry" is the term furloughfodder used ... meaning airline pilot industry as a whole ... not just 737 airline pilots. Just a few years back and up till very recently at DAL, most legacy first officers with an equivalent longevity as you (12 years) earned more than you ... in some cases substantially more. Bring legacy captain wages into the comparison and and it is substantially more lopsided. As far as 737's go, you're right ... you are some of the best compensated pilots in the industry.

Cheers ...

 

[Jim Smyth]

CaptBud330, I am established and have been doing this for many years now and dont need to fly my a$$ off any more. I had many years when I was younger and hungrier and flew 900+ hours for the year block time. I can also tell you I am most likely the exception here rather than the rule. Most guys fly alot and pick up extra trips. Nice to have the choice. I always signed up for a good paying job where I had good time off. I am there now and dont want to mess it up!

Delville, I resisted to post my information for quite a while until furloughfodder chimed in with inacuate information. Plus if you dont want to share your information or think this is in bad taste dont look.

Big Beer Belly, to quote him

Enjoy your stay at the top you arrogant LUVers

was quite rude also. I dont think there were too many 737 FO's at the legacy carriers that made more than a SWA Captain. Maybe a few but I doubt it. We can fly up to 1000 hours in a year and even many years back when we were only at 70 percent of legacy pay, it didnt take but 1-2 days a month at straight pay or many times at time and a half to get up to and over there pay. I have compared W2's with many of my buds ( former Chapter 7 Midway Pilots ala 1991) at the legacy carriers over the years and SWA is right up there and in many cases over there pay due to there union restrictions. We just had to work a little harder for it.

I feel for the guys that arnt flying. I have been there and is does suck! But I wont sit here when someone comes on and slams us with bad information.

 

[PurpleTail]

$123,324.74 / FedEx / 3-4th yr / MD-11 FO (reserve)

2004 Total Stats - 213.4 Block, 191.5 Flight, 25 landings...thats it.

I thought the airline motto was "Work Less, More Pay"

--CaptBud330
"I guess I don't get it. I always thought LUV was productive. For the last 6 years at U, I averaged 935 block hours a year flying A330 International. Hmm. Make ya wonder."

Why would you brag about this? That has early retirement written all over it.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

I dont think there were too many 737 FO's at the legacy carriers that made more than a SWA Captain. Maybe a few but I doubt it. We can fly up to 1000 hours in a year and even many years back when we were only at 70 percent of legacy pay, it didnt take but 1-2 days a month at straight pay or many times at time and a half to get up to and over there pay. I have compared W2's with many of my buds ( former Chapter 7 Midway Pilots ala 1991) at the legacy carriers over the years and SWA is right up there and in many cases over there pay due to there union restrictions. We just had to work a little harder for it.

But I wont sit here when someone comes on and slams us with bad information.

Jim, to me it sounds like you have a serious case of D-E-N-I-A-L ... In the legacy carrier pilots' day UAL's (and others) pay scale for a 747, 757, 767, and 777 all exceeded your (SWA 737 based) pay, in some cases FAR EXCEEDED. For example, the top dogs driving the 747-400's were pulling down well over $300,000. You posted you made $152,000 (less options, $225 with). Do you still think you were right up there with the best paid in the "industry"? Many 747, 767 and 777 FO's routinely exceeded $152,000. We're talking FO's NOT captains! Do you still believe your pay was comparable to the rest of the "industry" for the last 30 years as you claimed. If so, I don't think you were keeping up with the industry very well.

In all honesty, I made more as an FO at UPS last year than you did as a captain at SWA (AND worked less than half the days and blocked less than half your hours including open time pick up). I have not spoken to a single captain at UPS that made LESS than you (including your stock option exercise). It doesn't sound like you are very aware of pilot wages. SWA is a great company and certainly a well run airline with many dedicated employees. My only point is that when it comes to SWA pilot wages versus the airline pilot "industry", until recently SWA lagged and in some comparisons lagged substantially behind those of the legacy carriers.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Are you hitting the beer early again?

If you reread what I wrote before I said "FOR THE PLANE I FLY"

That means 737's.

DOH!

 

[jetdriven]

39,460 MESA/1900D CA/3rd year.
of that 35,567 was wages, 790 health insurance, and 3113 per diem.

approx 950 block hours, I had about 3 weeks off during one bid.

My FO made 13,800 plus 1400 perdiem MESA/1st year FO/ 9 months of flying 726 block hours.

 

[bobs98tlr]

If just one person got some useful info from this it is all worth it.

I did. Thank you.


First of all i only read to page 7. Second, i can see where this thread could be a shame but in the shoes im in right now it is nice to see some fellow professional pilots share with the people on this board who dream of one day being in the seat they sit in as a job (like me) how much they make in a year. I appriciate those who have sharred there income. Lets us know that the days of making $300k a year really arent going to be around for to long anymore. Even though im not after the money really i just want to fly the big boys for a big cargo company. Yes id love to have the money, but thats not why im taking the path im taking.

 

[wahoo250]

remember...Its a job not a hobby

 

[bobs98tlr]

remember...Its a job not a hobby

To each their own...

It maybe a job to you. It might have been a hobby to you when you first started flying and then you let it turn into a job. That doesnt make it a job for everyone, just you and others that let the little stuff take over your hobby and turn it into a job.

Oh yeah, sorry guys....

18,532/ working at a local FBO/ 1 year/ over 1700 hours

 

[Big Beer Belly]

LUV has never been at the bottom of the industry, pay wise for the last 30 years or so!

Jim ... H-E-L-L-O ... you there Jim? That's your quote Jim. Your whole "panties in a wad" episode here was a result of furloughfodder stating that SWA's pay has historically not been comparable to the "industry" as a whole (never a mention of comparing only 737 pay scales). Until very recently SWA has indeed been well behind your airline pilot peers when it comes to compensation. I'll phrase it a different way ... 100% of SWA's pilots have been on par with the BOTTOM 10% (flying the SMALLEST jets and being paid the LEAST) or so of the legacy carriers' pay scales. 90% of the legacy pilots (all operating jets larger than the 737 and being paid MORE than the 737 pay scale) have been more highly compensated than the average SWA pilot. If this thread were not specifically about airline pilot compensation, I would never be so crass in my comments.

Once again Jim, we agree that as far as 737 pilot pay scales go, SWA is at parity with your peers and has recently exceeded your peers because they have all taken one or more pay cuts. As far as comparing SWA pilot compensation to the airline industry as a whole, well as I've pointed out before, it has lagged and at times very substantially.

As far as SWA goes, I think it's a fine company offering a great product with many fine aviators working hard to continue to make it a success. This is simply a discussion about pilot COMPENSATION.

Cheers Jim!

 

[WMUSIGPI]

$21000. $5000 as a CFI from jan to april. $16000 may to dec as part 135 js31 and (mostly)corporate part 91 lj31 FO. flew 110 hrs as CFI and 175 as FO.
average 6 nights a month in hotel but I also logged about 300 hours driving to and from trips back to home airport (not counting any time from home to based airport) Too bad SWA won't take that time toward the 1000 pic.
good job if it weren't for all the driving involved.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Well I guess when we all get to the end of our carrers we will be able to see if we made the right choices. I am happy where I am at and with the plane I fly, are you? For me its never been strictly about the money, I have worked for alot less flying the same aircraft at the same airport just a different uniform. In the 12+ years I have been at SWA our union has run multiple surveys for the membership during contract negociations. They hired professional companies to disect other 737 pilots contracts and gave us all the pay numbers, graphs etc. Bottom 10 percent of 737 now and then, hardly! Are pay until recently has been in the 70 percent of the legacy pay scale (FOR THE 737). Thats a fact weather you want to believe it or not. Our union compared us with every other 737 operator out there and used the legacy carriers contract as an example to base our future wages on. Why not, they were spirialing upwards for what seemed forever. So we are well informed on what other 737 drivers make. This whole thread was on compansation issues for others to read and base decisions on. Care to compare yours? We have a few SWA FO's pay statement already on this thread. Airlinepilotpay.com doesnt show your top out numbers very much higher thans out right now and some of the middle years are lower then ours.

 

[wahoo250]

just remember...its a hooby when you pay for it... its a job when it pays you. Im not saying don't enjoy it; just differentiate it. I'm happy with my job. You'll see when people start asking you to do things for "the fun of it"... $ pays the bills, not fun. Also remember professional athletes and singers are doing what they enjoy....you dont see the NHL players backing down because they are not having fun this year do you?

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Bottom 10 percent of 737 now and then, hardly! Are pay until recently has been in the 70 percent of the legacy pay scale (FOR THE 737). Thats a fact weather you want to believe it or not. Our union compared us with every other 737 operator out there and used the legacy carriers contract as an example to base our future wages on.

Jim, I give up friend. I'm struggling to think of a polite way to describe your inability to understand the written word. There is an obvious (at least to me) disconnect between what someone writes and YOUR understanding/comprehension of those written words.

I tried to emphasize repeatedly that I was not disparaging SWA, just setting the record straight on compensation. The fact that you digressed into what a happy life you have and that "money wasn't everything" (no one claimed it was ... if you recall, this is a thread about PAY ... H-E-L-L-O Jim?) alerts me that you have taken offense to the reality of the pay situation. Since I have no faith you will even understand what I'm writing, I'll simply wish you the best and move on.

Happy Trails

BBB

 

[Gumshoe]

2003 4th year UAL F/O 134K
2004 Mortgage Loans 40K
2005 Skywest CRJ F/O 34K if im lucky!

2005 outlook : Possible foreclosure bankruptcy or both...

Still paying my phone bill waiting for that SWA call...

 

[ACAFool]

. Also remember professional athletes and singers are doing what they enjoy....you dont see the NHL players backing down because they are not having fun this year do you?

You durn tootin. That's why I'm holding out for Kobe plus 1%. That would be a nice contract.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Well at least we can both agree that neither of us can undererstand what the other is saying!

Took offense with pay issues that furloughfodder brought up in a snide matter. YOU BET!