Strike in 09 at United is looking real

[ualdriver]

OK...you tell me, if there is a complete shutdown on UAL property...how long do you think the entity will last before there is a BK filing of some sort?

When the cash runs out. If they have as much cash then as they do now, it would be a long time if the planes aren't moving.

How long are the Pilots willing to stay out? If they don't get 100% of what they want...then what will they actually accept?

We'll probably end up settling for something that at least lifts the bar up a little bit for the industry, just like we did with our last contract outside of bankruptcy. I guess we'll have to see how things go at CAL or AMR for starters as we don't even come up to the plate until DEC '09. Regardless, it's going to have to be something that will allow us to remain competitive with our "peers" at certain carriers who will probably do nothing to "raise the bar" on their end and will use any gains the unionized carriers make over the next few years to undercut all of us.

Some guys talk SOS.
Did you know that the last SOS was a complete failure? Some pilot groups didn't even want to get involved.

SOS is a waste of time that will bankrupt its membership. No thanks. It isn't going to happen.

How would you go about getting everyone involved?

Personally, I volunteer and try to use my ALPA committee position to help people with their problems and answer their questions. Of course, ALPA does little to nothing for its membership as implied by many ALPA haters, so of course I do nothing.

 

[Flopgut]

And your way is effectively getting us where?



I am all for innovation and new ways. But in order to change the paradigm we have to get more people involved.

If you want to execute this sister paln you are going to have to educate more members. That means getting them involved. Also once you gain acceptance you have to convince congress. 14% of PAC particaption might owrk... but more PAC contributions will make it easier.



The racist and anti-civil rights advocates wanted allot of people to show up to MLK I have a dream speech?

the British wanted thousands to follow Ghandi on the Salt March? I don't get it?




Because Air Line Pilots love to support Corp America.



Ok... that means get acitive. More guys need to send emails, make phone calls, show up at LEC meetings, pass resolutions, run for office and vote for change. Its called particaption and acitivism!




Agreed! I want new and innovative ways to protect this profession. We can rename ALPA and call it something else! I don't care. But in order to get rid of the old ways we need more pilots involved. Doing nothing is support for the old ways and the status quo!

Rez: A great plan will not be brought about by having a whole bunch of pilots participate. It will take a great plan to get them to participate....Maybe! Th deal is: We all work so much now no one has the time to spare! Your tagline thingy says "no one's ever participated", that's not quite true. Many did once upon a time but we used to fly 30% less hours than we do now. ALPA has to lead. Leadership will have to inspire the group. ALPA is like an abusive spouse, they have to make the change. Guys like you have to stop preaching about traditional union activities and get on board with a new way of doing things. Call ALPA tommorrow and say: "get me somebody to yell at!". Stop with this whinning: pilots won't do what I want em to crap.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez: A great plan will not be brought about by having a whole bunch of pilots participate.

Then how will it be done? Will the defunct leadership do it? Not according to the haters. Your problem is you are not offering any solutions. Or if you do your solution is to wait for the leadership to finally come to its senses. How long are you going to wait?

It will take a great plan to get them to participate....Maybe! Th deal is: We all work so much now no one has the time to spare!

And you think by doing nothing your situation will improve? Do you think management will say.. "you know we didn't realize how much we like you apathetic pilots so we are going to give you more days off so you can do union work..."

Your tagline thingy says "no one's ever participated", that's not quite true. Many did once upon a time but we used to fly 30% less hours than we do now.

So whats the solution? Be indentured servants?

ALPA has to lead. Leadership will have to inspire the group.

Agreed. Does the membership have any responsibility?

ALPA is like an abusive spouse, they have to make the change.

Does the abuser have to stop beating too? My point is there is responsibility on both sides.

Guys like you have to stop preaching about traditional union activities and get on board with a new way of doing things.

Sounds good. what new things do you suggest. [direct request for your input on new things. please reply]

Call ALPA tommorrow and say: "get me somebody to yell at!".

Yelling is for the weak. It closes doors and is regressive. See many pilots just want to slam thier fist on the desk and demand action. It doesn't work this way. Especially when management and gov't have most of the cards.

Stop with this whinning: pilots won't do what I want em to crap.

Whining? I am adovating action, activism, change, innovation and solutions. Oh, I get it.. if you say I'm whining then it will distract from your whining...


Look man, ALPA has big problems but waiting for the leadership to "do the will" of the membership isn't working... is it?

Many of us are trying to make things better by addressing the external and internal problems. Guys like you won't do anything until everything is how you want it to be. What about the other guys that want it the way they want it.... 60,000 guys demanding ALPA be thier own personal career valet....




p.s. ualdriver ...tejas-jet is like minded...

 

[roadrunnerblue]

DAL737FO hit the nail on the head. The PEB will prevent ANY labor group at ANY large legacy carrier from striking. Simple as that.

It's just not a power that an airline union has.

Good luck

This would change if for just once all airline pilots in the US would go out on strike together in solidarity. Even if it is just for 1 day!

God forbid if we had the balls to extend this and were willing to be incarcerated for the common good (and bring this ******************** government to its knees) and forcefeed some respect down their collective throats. No we are our own worst enemies!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

This would change if for just once all airline pilots in the US would go out on strike together in solidarity. Even if it is just for 1 day!

Obviously you haven't been reading these threads. Please provide a detailed and objective analysis of why a SOS would work. Also discuss the APA sick out and PATCO.

God forbid if we had the balls to extend this and were willing to be incarcerated for the common good (and bring this ******************** government to its knees) and forcefeed some respect down their collective throats. No we are our own worst enemies

Everyone wants everyone to fall on thier sward but themselves...

 

[Morning Wood]

Look out for Kasher as well. I don't think there is a pilot at Alaska that thinks we will get a contract before 2009 especially when the company is talking in 2009 economics - Go figure. Why settle anything now when they can delay and keep paying the crappy wages they have in the current contract?

The entire industry just sucks right now. I'm suggesting a National "Call in sick day during the 4th of July holiday." Any takers? ALPA can't support officially due to the rules they operate under, but I think this would give the industry and the public a wakeup call!!

Baja.

Ha. You go first, tough guy. I don't think ALPA or anyone else has the balls to do such a thing. Ask anyone at AA who did just what you suggest and had to pay a great big fine if that tactic worked for them.

 

[PAPA FOX!]

Sorry to be a wet blanket but there is no way any airline of any size is going to be allowed to strike under any administration (Dem or Rep). With recent rulings against unions ability to strike even when their contracts have been thrown out, I doubt management is very scared of that route. I don't think it's right but I think that's the way it's going to be.

The way to work around that is on given random days all flights divert to a suitable alternate several hundred miles from dest. This will wreak just as much havok as a formal strike.

 

[Draginass]

There is no way on earth that the President (ANY president) is going to allow a legal strike. The public could care less about your pay and benefits. They also don't care if the pilots up front are even Americans. All they care about is that THEY get to where they are going on time and on the cheap. The politicians scoff at ALPA because they know the paper tiger is toothless and "fixed."

 

[BOOZENEWS]

Let us not forget the New York Transportation Workers in 2005. They were willing to fight for what they believed in. Their head honcho, Roger Toussaint, was willing to spend some time in jail to make it happen. The end result - the workers got what they deserved/fought for.

You could NEVER expect ALPA to ever even CONSIDER a illegal job action. You can't expect a unix to "grow a pair."

Anyone union leader who is truly a man would be willing to go to jail for 10 days as Mr Toussaint did. (actually 3 days due to good behavior)

10 days is less than HALF of what Paris Hilton is facing!! GROW A PAIR!!

 

[BOOZENEWS]

Also, if any union were smart they would bring attention to the public and make the need for higher pay a SAFETY issue. Play the safety card over and over.

Think about it, you'd pay a doctor more to ensure you had the best medical care and you'd pay a lot more for a lawyer than the cheapest if you were falsely accused of a crime you didn't commit.

TELL THE PUBLIC THAT TOP PAY IS NEEDED TO ENSURE THEM A SAFE FLIGHT!!